Were all the apostles but Paul cursed?

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ituttut:
Does Jesus call it His Law or Moses' Law?

ituttut

If you can show me Scripture that states: I am not ashamed of the gospel of Paul, for it is the power of Paul unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. then I will admit on this Forum that I am a likely heretic because I have believed a false gospel.

BUT YOU CAN NOT. Scripture states [Romans 1:16]: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut

I will give you the same answer I presented on a similar thread as follows:

There is no such thing as the gospel of Paul. There is only the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you only know the gospel of Paul, whatever that is, then spend some time on your knees.

Because Mary gave birth to the man Jesus Christ Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox give her the false title of Mother of God, which is clearly heretical. Calling the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Gospel of Paul or differentiating between that Gospel Jesus Christ taught while on earth from the Gospel revealed to Paul is just as repugnant as calling Mary the Mother of God.

Put in plain words the doctrine of hyper dispensationalism is as near to heresy and blasphemy as one could get. Your veneration of Paul borders on the Roman Catholic doctrine of the veneration of Mary.

Response posted by ituttut:
Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant, this the heavenly Apostle commissioned by Christ Jesus from heaven to give His (Jesus Christ’s) gospel. Please in the future point your finger toward the sky and say I do not believe your gospel from on high.

The Catholic church believes the gospel of Peter, and not Mary. Mary does not claim a gospel. You are confused. Christian faith, ituttut

Counter Response posted by OldRegular:
ituttut

You say that: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant.

Either retract the statement or admit that you are guilty of lying.

As far as the Catholic Church believing the gospel of Peter there is no such gospel anymore than there is a gospel of Paul. There is only One Gospel, there has always been only One Gospel, there will always be only One Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Power of God unto Salvation. To claim otherwise is blasphemous and heretical. </font>[/QUOTE]

Final Response posted by ituttut:
Does Jesus call it His Law or Moses' Law?

ittut stands convicted of lying for his refusal to retract the following false statement attributed to me:

Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant.

Please note that I stated originally:

Calling the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Gospel of Paul or differentiating between that Gospel Jesus Christ taught while on earth from the Gospel revealed to Paul is just as repugnant as calling Mary the Mother of God.

There is nothing in that statement that calls Paul repugnant!

OldRegular

 

[ituttut]

QUOTE]Originally posted by elijah_lives: THIS ALSO INCLUDES YOUR FOLLOW- UP POST.
"The Apostles, with the exception of Paul only preached to the circumcised, so this was out-of-bounds for them, or their converts. God sent Peter to one Gentile as found in Acts 10, and that was it. The Gentile nations to the West became Christian nations, not those of the Pentecostal church.Christian faith, ituttut "

Who is talking about Gentiles? These verses in Acts chap. 2 are referring to Jews of the Dispersion, who where required by their faith to attend the Feast of the First-fruits, in Jerusalem. Peter converted them at that time (verse 41), which I believe is behind the tradition of Peter's founding the church in Rome. He did, indirectly, through his wonderful sermon depicted in this chapter. It could not be clearer in the text... [/QUOTE]

YOUR FOLLOW-UP POST

Originally posted by elijah_lives:
Sorry, I meant to point out in my previous post that in Acts 2:10, "...and strangers of Rome, Jews and PROSELYTES..." These formed the basis of the church in Rome.

The nature of Pauls Epistle to the Romans, especially the greetings at the end, imply that a lot of communication had been going on before his epistle, in the form of visitors and letters. We will probably never know the exact particulars of the early years of that church, but it is obvious that Pentecost was the germ.

Tim

Hello Tim. Agree Peter has a great sermon in Acts 2, but know the Gentile is not allowed into the inner court until after Damascus Road.

I’ll also agree this will most likely never be settled, but leaving tradition out and going by scripture I believe a stronger case can be made that the heathen gospel of “through” faith can be made. For one thing Christ from heaven appointed Paul to go to the Gentiles and to the Jew. Of course Paul went to the Jew first, but then also preached to the Gentiles, which we know the Apostolic kingdom church did not do (go to the Gentiles) as shown in Acts 10, and Galatians 2. If any did, they were not within the confines of the Apostolic church.

You are possibly saying a synagogue church may have been in existence before a Christian church, and possibly a case could be made scripturally, but I would even doubt that.

It is hard for me to go with tradition when God intends otherwise. Acts 23:11, ”And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.” Christ had evidently told Paul not to build on another’s foundation, Peter’s, and I believe if anyone knows what germ was to be planted in Rome it would Christ with the message that He gave to Paul. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
Does Jesus call it His Law or Moses' Law?

ituttut

If you can show me Scripture that states: I am not ashamed of the gospel of Paul, for it is the power of Paul unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. then I will admit on this Forum that I am a likely heretic because I have believed a false gospel.

BUT YOU CAN NOT. Scripture states [Romans 1:16]: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. </font>[/QUOTE]It is the same gospel. The gospel of Paul is the gospel that Christ Jesus from heaven gave to Paul. Why won't you believe Paul? Romans 2:16, "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

You know I never quoted anything like you make-up. We should endeavor to be truthful in our correspondance.

I believe Jesus on earth, and I believe Christ Jesus in heaven. Romans 11:13, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:" Give me some scripture that says otherwise.

Your argument is with Paul my Apostle given to me by Christ Jesus in heaven, just as Peter was given the kingdom gospel, along with the other Apostles, to the Jew. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
[qb] ituttut

I will give you the same answer I presented on a similar thread as follows:

There is no such thing as the gospel of Paul. There is only the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you only know the gospel of Paul, whatever that is, then spend some time on your knees.

Because Mary gave birth to the man Jesus Christ Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox give her the false title of Mother of God, which is clearly heretical. Calling the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Gospel of Paul or differentiating between that Gospel Jesus Christ taught while on earth from the Gospel revealed to Paul is just as repugnant as calling Mary the Mother of God.

Put in plain words the doctrine of hyper dispensationalism is as near to heresy and blasphemy as one could get. Your veneration of Paul borders on the Roman Catholic doctrine of the veneration of Mary.

Response posted by ituttut:
Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant, this the heavenly Apostle commissioned by Christ Jesus from heaven to give His (Jesus Christ’s) gospel. Please in the future point your finger toward the sky and say I do not believe your gospel from on high.

The Catholic church believes the gospel of Peter, and not Mary. Mary does not claim a gospel. You are confused. Christian faith, ituttut

Counter Response posted by OldRegular:
ituttut

You say that:

Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant.

Either retract the statement or admit that you are guilty of lying.

Isn’t it you that finds Paul offensive. You want me to agree you are telling the truth? You know I can’t do that. You need to stand-up and admit Christ Jesus gave to Paul a gospel for the Gentile, and for the Jew.

As far as the Catholic Church believing the gospel of Peter there is no such gospel anymore than there is a gospel of Paul. There is only One Gospel, there has always been only One Gospel, there will always be only One Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Power of God unto Salvation. To claim otherwise is blasphemous and heretical. </font>

Can’t go along with you on that. Peter preached the gospel of John the Baptist, as Jesus preached it on earth, and Paul preaches Christ Jesus from heaven. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ituttut:
Can’t go along with you on that. Peter preached the gospel of John the Baptist, as Jesus preached it on earth, and Paul preaches Christ Jesus from heaven. Christian faith, ituttut

The gospel of John the Baptist! Poor ituttut! Poor poor ituttut!

 

[OldRegular]

Let us see. According to ituttut we have the gospel of John the Baptist and the dispensational gospel of Paul. I don't know where he finds them in Scripture.

But according to Paul we only have [Romans 1:16] the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

Frankly, I believe only the Gospel that Jesus Christ preached, which is the same Gospel that the Apostle Peter preached, which is the same Gospel that all the Apostles preached, which is the same Gospel that the Apostle Paul preached.

I hope this is the Gospel that all will come to believe for it is the only way by which one can be saved.

 

[TexasSky]

Amen Old Regular.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
Can’t go along with you on that. Peter preached the gospel of John the Baptist, as Jesus preached it on earth, and Paul preaches Christ Jesus from heaven. Christian faith, ituttut

The gospel of John the Baptist! Poor ituttut! Poor poor ituttut!

</font>[/QUOTE]Check out Luke 16:16 then go to Mark 1:4. Mark 1:1 tells us what follows is the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. What do you make of these scriptures?

Does someone have a gospel of Jesus Christ, before Jesus preached it? God always gives to ordinary man the privilege and duty of proclaiming His message.

Your replies are most often full of contradictions. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
Let us see. According to ituttut we have the gospel of John the Baptist and the dispensational gospel of Paul. I don't know where he finds them in Scripture.

I see I can be of help again to you. We see in Matthew 24:13-14 the gospel of John the Baptist of the “kingdom” will be preached in all the world, and then comes the end. In the meantime “All must endure until the end”. And what is the gospel of the kingdom to come? “Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins”. If you deny this you then deny the Word of God. Is this what you believe?

But according to Paul we only have [Romans 1:16] the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

Here is some more help if you will receive it. Did Christ tell Saul/Paul something never before revealed to man?

Frankly, I believe only the Gospel that Jesus Christ preached, which is the same Gospel that the Apostle Peter preached, which is the same Gospel that all the Apostles preached, which is the same Gospel that the Apostle Paul preached.

You contradict His Word

I hope this is the Gospel that all will come to believe for it is the only way by which one can be saved.

If what you say is true, that Paul preached to the Gentile they are to be circumcised, then you must repent of your sins, for they have not yet been forgiven, and you must be water baptized for the remission of those sins you just repented of for water baptism is necessary for your salvation. If you go this route you need to join the Catholic church.

Christian faith OldRegular, ituttut

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ituttut:
If what you say is true, that Paul preached to the Gentile they are to be circumcised, then you must repent of your sins, for they have not yet been forgiven, and you must be water baptized for the remission of those sins you just repented of for water baptism is necessary for your salvation. If you go this route you need to join the Catholic church.

Christian faith OldRegular, ituttut

ituttut

You go too far. You are unaple to present a coherent argument for your heretical doctrine of hyperdispensationalism. Therefore, you resort to lying about those things that I write saying

If what you say is true, that Paul preached to the Gentile they are to be circumcised

You did this earlier when you accused me of calling Paul repugnant.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
If what you say is true, that Paul preached to the Gentile they are to be circumcised, then you must repent of your sins, for they have not yet been forgiven, and you must be water baptized for the remission of those sins you just repented of for water baptism is necessary for your salvation. If you go this route you need to join the Catholic church.

Christian faith OldRegular, ituttut

ituttut

You go too far. You are unaple to present a coherent argument for your heretical doctrine of hyperdispensationalism. Therefore, you resort to lying about those things that I write saying

If what you say is true, that Paul preached to the Gentile they are to be circumcised

You did this earlier when you accused me of calling Paul repugnant. </font>[/QUOTE]Is it not you OldRegular that will not stand behind what you post, and then cast aspersions in my direction?

Here is your Quote OldRegular, “Frankly, I believe only the Gospel that Jesus Christ preached, which is the same Gospel that the Apostle Peter preached, which is the same Gospel that all the Apostles preached, which is the same Gospel that the Apostle Paul preached." "I hope this is the Gospel that all will come to believe for it is the only way by which one can be saved. “Unquote

1. Will you agree the gospel that John the Baptist preached was ” Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” in Matthew 3:2? And in Mark 1:4 baptism for the repentance of sins, ”John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”

Can you find this gospel in the gospel that Christ Jesus gave to Paul?

2. Will you agree the gospel that Jesus preached was ”And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand,” Matthew 10:7? And in Mark 16:15-16 the “great commission” is to spread the gospel of believe and be baptized, or be damned?

Can you find this gospel in the gospel that Christ Jesus gave to Paul?

3. Peter preached in Acts 2:38 repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Can you find this gospel in the gospel that Christ Jesus gave to Paul for the heathen?


4. Please tell me the gospel that Paul preached in Acts 16.

I really don’t see how you can honestly say the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven is the same gospel as Jesus while on this earth. Paul does not allude to the “great commission”, or to the “kingdom at hand”. Christ told Paul to preach the “Cross” of grace of God, Through faith, and the “rapture” of the “Lord is at hand”.

I lie not, but point you to your contradictory posts. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[OldRegular]

ituttut:

This is your original post presented above [I add the emphasis of the lie you told about me]:

Originally posted by ituttut:
If what you say is true, that Paul preached to the Gentile they are to be circumcised, then you must repent of your sins, for they have not yet been forgiven, and you must be water baptized for the remission of those sins you just repented of for water baptism is necessary for your salvation. If you go this route you need to join the Catholic church.

Christian faith OldRegular, ituttut

ituttut:

What do we call a person who deliberately tells something that is untrue?

Paul, being a true Apostle, and not some hyperdispensational caricature of an apostle, preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the only Gospel that was ever preached and the only Gospel that ever will be preached. For the last time, according to the Apostle Paul, this Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, to everyone that believeth.

The Apostle John had advice that I believe is applicable to you and which I intend to follow with regard to you [since you preach a false hyperdispensational gospel] in 2 John 10, 11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut:

This is your original post presented above [I add the emphasis of the lie you told about me]: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
If what you say is true, that Paul preached to the Gentile they are to be circumcised, then you must repent of your sins, for they have not yet been forgiven, and you must be water baptized for the remission of those sins you just repented of for water baptism is necessary for your salvation. If you go this route you need to join the Catholic church.

Christian faith OldRegular, ituttut

ituttut:

OldRegular I said if what you say is true. But evidently it isn’t for that is not what you believe, so no lie made or intended. Only that you will understand I really don’t believe you think you have to be saved as commanded in Mark 16.

What do we call a person who deliberately tells something that is untrue?

We both know the answer to that and we should endeavor not to do so.

Paul, being a true Apostle, and not some hyperdispensational caricature of an apostle, preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the only Gospel that was ever preached and the only Gospel that ever will be preached. For the last time, according to the Apostle Paul, this Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, to everyone that believeth. s

And for the last time, you teach the gospel of Paul, unwilling to give him credit for preaching the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven, for Christ gave Paul His dispensational gospel.

The Apostle John had advice that I believe is applicable to you and which I intend to follow with regard to you [since you preach a false hyperdispensational gospel] in 2 John 10, 11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. </font>[/QUOTE]I hope you are ashamed for you falsely accuse my good conversation in Christ. I have a good conscience when some speak evil, unjustified - I Peter 3:16-17. We Christians do suffer, even from the tongues of other Christians. We are warned against that.

I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Being in Christ I have both the Father and the Son. So you falsely accuse as John says those that don’t believe these things are to be shunned. As you falsely accuse, I don’t know whether to bid you God speed or not. But I do believe you may hold dear those two doctrines above, so God speed to you OldRegular. Perhaps someday you will also believe what you put forth, and that is the gospel of Paul, the gospel that Christ Jesus gave to him for we Gentile’s. Christian faith, ituttut