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Were our future sins forgiven already?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Eliyahu, Jan 21, 2006.

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  1. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    This question arose when I spoke with some Roman Catholic people.
    I mentioned that all of our sins were forgiven at the time when Jesus shed the blood and died at the Cross.

    RC mention about the Prayer taught by Lord (Mt 6) teaches us to ask for the forgiveness of our sins. This is why RC conduct the Mass every week where Catholic priests ask God for the forgiveness of the sins confessed by the people during the week.

    How is your belief? Were our future sins forgiven already? or do we have to ask for the forgiveness for the future sins each time when we discover the sins committed by us?
     
    #1 Eliyahu, Jan 21, 2006
  2. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    This is my personal opinion, so take it as such.

    I believe that when Jesus Christ gave His life for us on the cross that He was consciously aware of every sin that every human being had committed before that day all the way back to Adam. He was consciously aware of every single sin that was being committed at the time he was dying. And He was consciously aware of every single sin that humans would commit in the future, even humans that were not even born yet.

    He died for it ALL!

    He HAD to be dying for "future sins", because if He did not, then He did not die for anyone's sins here on the Baptist Board, because we were not alive then and would have been considered at that time of the "future".

    So, because He DID die for it all and that includes all people born after He died, then that means that He died for sins that you and I have not even committed yet.

    All of those sins that we are not even aware that we are going to commit.

    All of those sins that we have SWORN under God that we will never do again and yet we have done again and by thunder, we will do again.

    But because we are saved, does that mean that we don't have to repent or confess? Not at all!!

    The Christian, to keep himself or herself as close to the center of the will of God as possible, MUST repent and confess....everyday.

    We must go to God with our sins as Christians and tell him that we are still worms most miserable.

    The fate of our soul as Christians is a DONE DEAL! When we place our lives under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and we "die" with Him and are raised into a new life, our eternities, with Jesus, are secure forever.

    Then why do we still sin?

    Because our saved souls live in a fleshly body and in a fleshly world where satan rules as prince (temporarily).

    So, when our flesh battles with our spirit and sometimes wins out....then we as Christians need to confess those times and experiences unto our God and Savior and ask for His forgiveness, His guidance, His help, His mercy, and His love.

    And when we are sincerely desiring to please God with our repentance and confession, He does not have to save us all over again and Jesus does not have to die all over again, but instead God extends His Mighty Hand into that pit of filth and pulls us out, cleans us up, and forgives us.

    And He does so, because we are His. And we are His because His Son died for us and we chose to die, spiritually, with Him.

    Yes...Jesus died for all sin for all time. He died to pay the price for the sin of the world, past, present, and future.

    No....not every human being's sins are covered by that price. Each human being, who is mentally accountable, must made a conscious choice to die with Jesus, and yet live as Paul says. We must die, too. Not as a sacrifice, because we could NEVER be sufficient, but bury ourselves in the blood of Jesus and to allow the blood-price of Jesus to cover us up.

    Yes...even Christians must still individually and privately confess their sin unto God and repent of habits that are keeping them from living in the direct center of God's will for them.

    No...the shepherd of the individual church (such as a priest or a pastor) cannot do the repenting and confessing for you.

    Sorry for rambling so....

    Peace-
    Scarlett O.
    <><
     
    #2 Scarlett O., Jan 21, 2006
  3. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso New Member

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    Forgiveness is a two way street. The fact that Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, proves that God knew what would happen here on earth, and had already made provision. God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit had already decided to forgive humanity from the foundation of the world. You don't die for someone you haven't already forgiven in your heart.

    This fact alone however, cannot make our relationship with God right in and of itself. If you get mad at me, and slap me in my face, I can choose to forgive you, or not. Even if I do choose to forgive you, our relationship will not be right, until you confess your wrong, and put away your ill feelings towards me.

    God has forgiven all in and through His Son Jesus Christ. Now it is up to each one of us to do our part to make our relationship with Him right.


    I Jn 1:7-10 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    By for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
     
    #3 Kamoroso, Jan 21, 2006
  4. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Many Thanks to Scarlet and Kamoroso.
    One thing which we should distinguish clearly is the difference between Confess ( said in 1 John) and Ask for Forgiveness.

    When I made a whole-hearted repentence and confession to Lord, I found the answer from the Lord that such sin was forgiven already at the Cross, not anew at that time.

    So, the question was about so-called "Lord's Prayer" ( I said so-called because, the Lord's Prayer is in John 17, and so-called Lord's Prayer better be called Prayer taught by Lord). It asks us to ask God for the forgiveness of sins.
    If I excuse that it was taught before the Crucifixion, then I would be challenged as denying the effect of the Lord's Prayer today.

    When we think about John 20:23,
    Whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them.
    "They are remitted unto them " has some Elizabethan grammar and can be re-phrased as
    they have been remitted unto them. (3rd Plural present perfect)

    Isn't this strange because we should say " they will be remitted unto them"?

    However, we have another verse:
    Acts 8:22
    pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

    How would you interpret this verse and Lord's Prayer?
     
    #4 Eliyahu, Jan 21, 2006
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Christ died for all the sins of the world for all of time.

    Thus we see that the sacrifice needed for all sins for all time has been made "ONCE FOR ALL" at the cross.

    #1. He takes away the first in order to establish the second. vs 9
    #2. offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. vs 10
    #3. one sacrifice for sins for all time, Vs 12
    #4. by one offering He has perfected for all time Vs 14
    #5. , there is no longer any offering for sin. Vs 18

    Not only "sacrificed once" but only "offerred once" for all time!

    So "no mass"
     
    #5 BobRyan, Jan 21, 2006
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Having said that - we expose the flaw in the RC model. But there is also a mistake made by many non RC Christians in that they view the forgiveness in the Gospel in a "grocery store" model. Once the groceries are paid for you can go out and do as you like. They are still "yours".

    But God rejects the grocery store model - HIS is the ATONEMENT mode of Lev 16 that requires BOTH the AToning Sacrifice of Christ in 1John 2 AND the UNIQUE High Priestly ministry of Christ in Heb 7-10.

    God's way is "the only way".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #6 BobRyan, Jan 21, 2006
  7. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Heb 10:
    10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
    12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD ,
    14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified


    I think this is what Catholic didn't like to hear or read and that's why this part disappeared in the Vatican text as Hebrews after 9:14 disappeared there.

    Catholic priests perform the Mass where they ask for the forgiveness of sins. They perfom a special Magic Show of converting the wine into blood, and bread into flesh.

    The important point is that, after the priests ask for the forgiveness of sins, they do not mention how the prayer request is answered by God, as they do not mention that such sins were already forgiven. If they mention that such sins were already forgiven, then it reveals that their demand to God for the forgiveness of sins means unbelieving what Jesus has done already .

    This is very crucial point of Holy Roman Catholic.

    All the other religion except True Christianity teach their people to do a good work, to ask for the forgiveness of their sins. .


    But the True Christianity teaches their people to believe what has been done already by God thru Jesus Christ and His work at the Cross
     
    #7 Eliyahu, Jan 21, 2006
  8. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Roman Catholics should ask their priests to bring the answer from God about their prayer asking the forgiveness of their sins.

    This week they will perform the Mass and ask God to forgive their sins, then what would be the answer from God? They must ask their priests to tell the Answer and Reply from God, next week!

    Oh, your prayer has finally reached me! I will forgive you now! Shall He say so?

    If they don't have the conviction of the forgiveness of their sins, it means that they have not got the salvation yet.
    If they are not save yet, they are not the true believers at all. This means Roman Catholics are not the Christians at all, even though their lips confess that they are !
     
    #8 Eliyahu, Jan 21, 2006
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I think this is what Catholic didn't like to hear or read and that's why this part disappeared in the Vatican text as Hebrews after 9:14 disappeared there.
    </font>[/QUOTE]What Vatican text??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #9 BobRyan, Jan 22, 2006
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As Much as I disagree with RC doctrine and with their policy of "extermination" in the dark ages -- I don't go so far as to say that a Catholic is not a Christian.

    Surely all Christians feel "convicted" when they sin and all feel the need to repent - to confess to experience for themselves the forgiveness of God "specific" to that sin.

    How can such a thing be a "Sign" that they are not a Christian?

    Having said that - it would appear that the owner of this message board might agree with you on the point that they are not Christian.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #10 BobRyan, Jan 22, 2006
  11. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    Bob--what is your definition of a Christian?

    That's correct, Eliyahu. People who simply profess Christ without the fruit, is not salvation. Salvation produces fruit. Read Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13. Just because somebody says they are Christian does not mean they are.

    The answer to that is "FRUIT"
    Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He bore the sins of the world in His body. 1 Peter 2:24
    Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    That is past, present and future sins. That does not mean we don't sin in our daily lives. But once we are saved, we are set free from the bondage of sin. We do not have a license to sin (Rom.6:1-2), but if we do sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus the Righteous

    (1 John 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: PTL!!! [​IMG]
     
    #11 Linda64, Jan 24, 2006
  12. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Shalom Linda!
    Excellent post by a true believer! Every statement is optimum.
    We sin from time to time, then confess our sins. This should be distinguished from asking forgiveness, because our sins were already forgiven.
    If we ask the forgiveness of our sins, then we get the answer quickly that they were already forgiven at the Cross.
    If we insist on the forgiveness of our sin despite such truth, then we are asking Jesus to come again and to die once again because we don't believe what he has done already.

    Nevertheless, there are many people who have never tasted the Salvation actually and do not understand the true joy from the repentence and relief from the burden of sin committed after the salvation-being born again.

    If you look at the other thread where I am battling, you will find such people.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3607/3.html
     
    #12 Eliyahu, Jan 24, 2006
  13. Psalm 100

    Psalm 100 New Member

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    I don't really understand you here. Are you saying that we shouldn't take sin as seriously than before we were saved?

    What is repentance? Is it not acknowledging sin on our part and seeking favor with God (in essence seeking forgiveness)for our trespasses?
     
    #13 Psalm 100, Jan 25, 2006
  14. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    That's not exactly true. Christ paid for our sins at the cross. That doesn't mean our sins were forgiven at the time when Christ was crucified.

    Scripture is very clear that we are to ask forgiveness for our sins. Why ask for something we already have? It doesn't make scriptural sense.
     
    #14 Johnv, Jan 25, 2006
  15. buckster75

    buckster75 Member

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    John,
    I think it is the difference of "foot washing" and "washing all of me"
     
    #15 buckster75, Jan 25, 2006
  16. buckster75

    buckster75 Member

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    future sins forgiven in the sense of penelty for those sins=yes

    future sins forgiven in the sence of broken daily fellowship with God=no. I think as John said, ask.
     
    #16 buckster75, Jan 25, 2006
  17. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    You are confused between the forgiveness and the condemnation. You are based on the incomplete salvation, and therefore you claim Grace + your own works.
     
    #17 Eliyahu, Jan 27, 2006
  18. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    That's not exactly true. Christ paid for our sins at the cross. That doesn't mean our sins were forgiven at the time when Christ was crucified.

    Scripture is very clear that we are to ask forgiveness for our sins. Why ask for something we already have? It doesn't make scriptural sense.     </font>[/QUOTE]___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    This is why I repeatedly said to you, that you are not born again in the Lord. I tell it thru your repeated statements. Your statements deny that you are the true believer at all. Sorry to say to you publicly.
     
    #18 Eliyahu, Jan 27, 2006
  19. buckster75

    buckster75 Member

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    You are confused between the forgiveness and the condemnation. You are based on the incomplete salvation, and therefore you claim Grace + your own works. </font>[/QUOTE]My post says nothing about works.
     
    #19 buckster75, Jan 27, 2006
  20. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Your post says Future sins are forgiven only when you ask, saying No to the question whether it was forgiven already or not.
    This means that your concept of forgivenes is incomplete. You are adding the work of ASKING
     
    #20 Eliyahu, Jan 27, 2006
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