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Now we are quoting Alan Shore on Boston Legal? LOL. It is a good show and very entertaining...but nobody with a brain really takes them seriously. What's next? Quoting "Denny Crain"?
They're sitting in front of their tv sets hypnotized by the talking heads.What’s Become of Americans?
Uhhh...twenty years ago we had elected Carter.Originally posted by The Galatian:
The bar's been lowered, that's for sure. We tolerate a degree of incompetence and malfeasance that would have been unimaginable twenty years ago.
You mean that we "know" about mistakes that 30-60 years ago would have been buried in sworn/coerced silence.Originally posted by The Galatian:
The bar's been lowered, that's for sure. We tolerate a degree of incompetence and malfeasance that would have been unimaginable twenty years ago.
You mean more so than during the Cold War when people didn't question gov't secrecy at all? When they thought it was an absolute necessary evil to prevent the spread of communism and destruction of the US?Originally posted by billwald:
Americans are now more interested in security and money than freedom.
America won't fail because of its politics. It will fail because of its moral decay.Originally posted by Enoch:
I am sickened by the minority left and their propaganda. But believe American will survive and become a better nation for it.
Paul Craig Roberts is on the right, not the left.Originally posted by Enoch:
I am sickened by the minority left
You betcha all wise and knowing one.Originally posted by saturneptune:
Well Scott,
There you go again. Your ideas of history are at best skewed and probably paid for by the RNC.
Agree.First of all, those we elect are nothing but a reflection of us, the American people.
Where did I say it was a divine mandate? How does his making a rational decision based on the best evidence for national security contradict the fact that we are sinking not because we can't save ourselves from foreign powers... but because of moral decay?So, how in one sentence can you recite facts and figures about how morally corrupt we are, and in the next sentence, talk about George Bush and his next to divine mandate in Iraq?
Yes... and college... and personal reading... and my relatives that did live through it...As far as your history of the 40's, 50's and 60's goes, since you were not around to live it, where did you get your information? the history channel?
No they aren't. GWB presided over the first attack on the US mainland by non-Americans since 1815.I tell you something about those decades and before that. Those were much much greater challenges than now,
In response to the notion that GWB is particularly faulty or incompetent or malfeasant. He isn't. Like the rest of our leaders that made mistakes and didn't have perfect foresight... it is not reasonable to expect him to be perfect... and completely irrational to now judge him for not peering into the crystal ball to see that the pre-war intelligence wasn't as ironclad as he was led to believe.and despite all the mistakes made by the various leaders you criticized,
Yes... and they did what they thought was right... and saddled future generations with the Social Security entitlement... with no way to know that the payee to beneficiary ratio would go from 13:1 to a forecasted 2.5:1 in less than 100 years. Was that "incompetence or malfeasance"? By Galatian's standard, you'd have to say so. They didn't perfectly predict a historical outcome... so they must have been incompetent and ill-willed.we went through a great depression,
Yes. Emphatically! The complexity, challenges, and dangers of today are far worse than those.WWII, the cold war that almost got us exterminated in October 62, VIetnam, Watergate, and you dare compare those challenges and mistakes of the past with the challenges and incompetence of today???
Absolutely agreed. And if GWB had not acted against Saddam and terrorism, future generations might not have had the opportunity either.If it were not for those leaders yes, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Nixon, Eisenhower, I doubt you would be here today
I am warped for judging Bush through a historical perspective while you are not even as you condemn him for being no less perfect than those of the past you defend.typing your warped ideas.
You forgot to mention those who are dying... and the responsibility of those protestors that accompanies that freedom.And as far as the anti-war protestors, I may not agree with them, but by golly, the war protestors are exercising their freedom under the US Constitution, and lots of people fought and died for that right (yes, freedom takes sacrifice, not cliches on a thread).
No they weren't. They were just effective.It seems to me I used to think some war protestors were wrong in the 60's, but darned if they werent right.
Oh... so I don't have a right to free speech. Just those with whom you sympathize? But you have every right to criticize current efforts... in a very complex situation? To criticize a decision that very well already may have enabled you to sit there and type without lifting a finger in sacrifice....?For you to sit here, criticize past achievements that gives you the right to sit in a chair and type without lifting a finger in sacrifice is unbelievible.
It takes gross hypocrisy to judge current leaders by a harsher standard than past leaders... to demand perfection while overlooking past failures.It takes a lot of gall to criticize the past record and compare it with the incompetence and challenges of today.
It appears that my understanding is at least as good as yours... but I am not in denial about the current effects of past actions/failures... or even successes.You really need to have a better understanding of history,
I do appreciate it... but do not operate under the delusion that they did everything right or didn't make mistakes even worse than the one that you call Bush incompetent for.a better appreciation of what was done long before you were born,
I read the non-sense you all post... read from both sides... read what returning soldiers say... read from "mainstream" sources... read from alternative sources...and get a real dose of what is going on today.
You mean that we "know" about mistakes that 30-60 years ago would have been buried in sworn/coerced silence.Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by The Galatian:
The bar's been lowered, that's for sure. We tolerate a degree of incompetence and malfeasance that would have been unimaginable twenty years ago.
A necessary evil if you are going to lower taxes and generate domestic demand. It all plays together.Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
What has Bush done right during his entire administration. Dramatically increase the deficit and weaken the dollar?
He had excellent reason... and that is my whole point.Invade another country without good reason?
First, Iran's weapons program had never reached the level Iraq's had in the past. Second, because as crazy as they are, Iran has never used WMD's... Saddam had... against other Muslims and even his own civilians. What makes you think he would have hesitated to give those weapons to terrorists to use on us?If we had wanted to invade a country that might actually have represented a threat to the U.S. why not Iran instead of Iraq?
We didn't pull out. That mission met its objectives.Why didn't we focus on the attack in Afghanastan and really bring down al Quada instead of pulling out pre-maturely to fight Bush's favorite target.
I don't know... maybe a mistake? Maybe they had friends and were fearful of reprisals? Maybe they just really wanted to go home?Why did we allow a planeload of Saudi princes to fly out of the U.S. on 9/12 when everything else was grounded?
Why weren't the warnings before December 7th heeded? Possibly because these two Presidents wanted a war... or maybe just because someone made a mistake in judgment about how credible the threats were.Why were the warnings from the FBI staff before 9/11 unheeded?
Do your really suspect that Bush told them not to and a conspiracy that large has kept its silence?Why couldn't the strongest military on earth scramble fighters to intercept the 9/11 aircraft in time?
Maybe because he didn't want to seem to panic, maybe shock, maybe he was trying to come to grips with it,... I don't know and neither do you.Why did Bush continue reading a book about a pet goat for 15 min. after being told about the crash of the second jet into the WTC tower?
Because that is the way the gov't does business sometimes. Right or wrong.Why did Haliburton receive so many war contracts without having to bid on them?
Presumes facts not in evidence (that he was a good man). But to the point, it was no great secret that Powell led one side of a power struggle in the Administration. He lost and decided it was time to go. Not an uncommon thing in gov't or the private sector.Why did the only really good man in this administration, Colin Powell resign?
Probably not. It appears to have been genuine philosophical differences with Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld.Was it because he wasn't willing to put up with the incompetency and lying to the American people any more?
Because people under the pressure of situations do bad things. Americans have violated the principles of the Geneva Convention in every conflict we've ever been in. For instance, it is against the Geneva convention to kill someone trying to surrender... but how many times do you think LRP teams have killed them or tied them up where no one could find them so their mission could go on?Why do American soldiers torture prisoners contrary to the Geneva Convention?
That's a pretty complex question... and that hatred didn't start with Iraq.Why does everyone in the world hate us?
Paul Craig Roberts is on the right, not the left. </font>[/QUOTE]I was referring to your question.Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Enoch:
I am sickened by the minority left