What are some of the essential doctrines of the christian faith?

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"Do you know the Disciples gathered together to break Bread on Sunday?"

GE:

Do you know they actually did NOT? For this is the Greek -- to which you have referred, first:

"AFTER WE BEFORE HAD COME TOGETHER for The-To-Break-Bread WE BEING TOGETHER STILL on the First Day of the week, Paul dealt with the disciples ...." 'sunehgmenohn' - Perfect Participle.

It implies indisputably they had gathered together on the Sabbath Day before, for Holy Communion.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"Then how come they collected the donations on the first day of the week ( 1 Cor 16:2) ?"

GE:

Because they rested and worshipped on the Sabbath Day.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"Have you patented the Technology and Know-how of How to Invent a New Bible?"

GE:

Not I -- the antichrist and co-labourers!

But you asked that 'fabricated text'. It is verse 9 of Hebrews 4. Let's have the Technicians' and messrs Know-alls' 'fabrication' of it: Read as old an instance as Luther's -- he must have hated the Sabbath.

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu:

"Do you know the Disciples gathered together to break Bread on Sunday?"

GE:

Do you know they actually did NOT? For this is the Greek -- to which you have referred, first:

"AFTER WE BEFORE HAD COME TOGETHER for The-To-Break-Bread WE BEING TOGETHER STILL on the First Day of the week, Paul dealt with the disciples ...." 'sunehgmenohn' - Perfect Participle.

It implies indisputably they had gathered together on the Sabbath Day before, for Holy Communion.

Have you learned Greek? Really?

So, when did they Break the Bread? On Sabbath or on Sunday?

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu:

"Then how come they collected the donations on the first day of the week ( 1 Cor 16:2) ?"

GE:

Because they rested and worshipped on the Sabbath Day.

So, are you saying they gathered twice, on Sabbath and on Sunday? or Sabbath was just for rest, and Sunday was for Worship Service meeting?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"I have entered the Katapausin in Jesus Christ the Owner of Real Sabbath"

GE:

Then you will do as Hebrews 9:4 says you would.

"If Jesus had given them rest .... (8) therefore then remains valid a keeping of the sabbath Day for the People of God (9) seeing He (Jesus) has entered into His own rest as God, in His own." (10)

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"I have entered the Katapausin in Jesus Christ the Owner of Real Sabbath"

GE:

"The Sabbath (Day) was made ... FOR ... man's good" -- i.e., for a help to or in his redemption, ultimately, which is, for man as the Body of Christ's own, the Church. "THEREFORE the Son of Man, is LORD, indeed of the Sabbath (Day)"! - Halleluiah!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Jesus Christ being Lord of His Church, is Jesus Christ being Lord of His Sabbath Day.

That is the Gospel truth because it is the truth for God's People.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Then, Eliyahu, if you don't believe or keep Sunday, why do you raise arguments for it? To keep in favour with men?

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu:

"Have you patented the Technology and Know-how of How to Invent a New Bible?"

GE:

Not I -- the antichrist and co-labourers!

But you asked that 'fabricated text'. It is verse 9 of Hebrews 4. Let's have the Technicians' and messrs Know-alls' 'fabrication' of it: Read as old an instance as Luther's -- he must have hated the Sabbath.

NOPE !
Sabbatismos must be interpretted in connection with the Katapausin in verse 8. V 9 continues to explain v 8.
That's why all the Bible including Luther's interpret it as Rest ( maybe SDA may be an exception if any)

Luther translated it as " RUHE", which eliminated even Sabbatruhe of modern German.


Don't make a new Bible to suit your idea!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"So, are you saying they gathered twice, on Sabbath and on Sunday? or Sabbath was just for rest, and Sunday was for Worship Service meeting?"

GE:

You presuppose the traditions of man. Taking collections - 'charity' - (I've now forgotten the correct English idiom) as part of the worship hour, using this text for justification, is directly against Paul's instruction in this very passage.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Have you learned Greek? Really?

So, when did they Break the Bread? On Sabbath or on Sunday?

GE:

Go learn English first, and you may deduce the answer for yourself.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

NOPE !

Sabbatismos must be interpretted in connection with the Katapausin in verse 8. V 9 continues to explain v 8.
That's why all the Bible including Luther's interpret it as Rest ( maybe SDA may be an exception if any)

Luther translated it as " RUHE", which eliminated even Sabbatruhe of modern German.

Don't make a new Bible to suit your idea!

GE:

"Sabbath's-keeping"-'Sabbatismos' was uncomfortable for Luther, that's why he translated it with the German word Ruhe - the word for 'katapausis', and not correctly as in any place that Greek word was ever used, meaning literally and exactly, just what it says: "Sabbath-keeping".

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Just SUPPOSE, the writer meant the same thing while using different words for the same thing, and then read the whole context, and it transforms into the ridiculous: 'Jesus having given them rest, therefore it remains for the People (to enter) the rest.' I could give more examples of such nonsense, but the need is lacking.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"Sabbatismos must be interpretted in connection with the Katapausin in verse 8. V 9 continues to explain v 8.
That's why all the Bible including Luther's interpret it as Rest."

GE:

So now it should be clear to you just why, Sabbatismos must be interpretted in connection with the Katapausin in verse 8, and that verse 8 explains v 9, and the 'katapausis', explains the 'sabbatismos'.

And that's why the SDAs may as an exception be right in this case! But don't worry -- they refuse to admit or accept that the obtaining of Jesus in this case of the 'Rest', amounts to His overcoming death through resurrection from the dead. They scorn at me for holding that view.

 

[Eliyahu]

Then, Eliyahu, if you don't believe or keep Sunday, why do you raise arguments for it? To keep in favour with men?

I don't believe the Worship should be on Sunday either.

1) Worship service must be on Sunday : Wrong

2) Worship service must be on Sabbath : Wrong

3) Sunday worship is pagan and therefore must be prohibited : Wrong

4) Sabbath keeping is cult and therefore must be prohibited : Wrong

5) It is likely that the paganism penetrated into Sunday Worship, especially since 4 c. as God didn't enjoin Sunday worship either.
But it doesn't mean that we should not gather together on Sunday, either.
Everyday belongs to God's Sovereign Reign. We can enjoy all the Worship on any day, everyday.

6) There is no specific instruction on the choice of the day for the Worship service. But I believe that Romans 14:5 still applies to this choice.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I esteem everyday ALIKE, then am I wrong?

7) Therefore the choice of which date of the week for the worship service cannot be an issue of Essential doctrines of Christianity.

8) There are some valid instructions supporting that the Firstday of the week was considered as Special, throughout the Bible:

a) Day of Firstfruits was Sunday ( Lev 23:11)
This day symbolized the Day of Resurrection of Jesus Christ. If anyone doesn't know this, he or she doesn't know the Bible very much yet.
Jesus was resurrected on this very day of Firstfruits! which was Sunday.

b) Pentecost ( Lev 23:16)
This day was Sunday, which foreshadow the Holy Spirit Inauguration

c) Jesus was resurrected on Sunday.
This is very clear in connection with Day of Firstfruits, then we find it in Matt 28:1, which was after 2 Sabbaths ( One High Sabbatha and one regular Sabbath). You can notice the Sabbth there is plural ( Mt 28:1- once for Sabbaths, the other for the week)

d) Jesus showed up on the eigth day after the resurrection, which we can believe was again the Sunday ( John 20:26)

e) Holy Spirit came down on the Pentecost, which was Sunday.


f) Disciples gathered on the first day of the week to break the bread, which was the Core of the Worship Service ( Acts 20:7)
Believers listened to the sermon on Sunday there.

g) Believers collected the Money on Sunday, which was an important part of the worship service.

h) Rev 1: 10 Lord's Day doesn't tell us very much, but I believe that if the Sabbath-keeping was so much obligatory and compulsory, then John would have mentioned " Sabbath", but strangely he mentioned it as " Lord's Day" which implies strongly the day of Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the LORD"S DAY which declared the Great Victory of our LORD Jesus Christ.

i) In addition,

if you check the Eighth Day in OT times, you will find it appears often, meaning " a New Start" of the life.

Eigth Day is another First Day of a Week.

On Eighth Day, Infant Boys were circumcisedm, which foreshadows the new life in Jesus Christ.

On Eighth Day of the Unleavened Bread Week, there was no work, but it was a Holy Convocation.

Leviticus 23: 36

Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.

There are tremendous instructions teachings about the Eighth Day which directs us to the New Start of the Life or New Millennium, or New Life in Jesus Christ.

Try to check these verses.

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineS...&oq=&NavBook=ro&NavGo=14&NavCurrentChapter=14

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu:

"Sabbatismos must be interpretted in connection with the Katapausin in verse 8. V 9 continues to explain v 8.
That's why all the Bible including Luther's interpret it as Rest."

GE:

So now it should be clear to you just why, Sabbatismos must be interpretted in connection with the Katapausin in verse 8, and that verse 8 explains v 9, and the 'katapausis', explains the 'sabbatismos'.

And that's why the SDAs may as an exception be right in this case! But don't worry -- they refuse to admit or accept that the obtaining of Jesus in this case of the 'Rest', amounts to His overcoming death through resurrection from the dead. They scorn at me for holding that view.

Every Festival or Feast in OT indicates Jesus Christ, and Sabbath was not an exception but was one of them.

Sabbath was instituted to teach the people to learn about Jesus Christ who is the owner and the Lord of Sabbath.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"I don't believe the Worship should be on Sunday either.

1) Worship service must be on Sunday : Wrong

2) Worship service must be on Sabbath : Wrong

3) Sunday worship is pagan and therefore must be prohibited : Wrong

4) Sabbath keeping is cult and therefore must be prohibited : Wrong

5) It is likely that the paganism penetrated into Sunday Worship, especially since 4 c. as God didn't enjoin Sunday worship either.
But it doesn't mean that we should not gather together on Sunday, either.
Everyday belongs to God's Sovereign Reign. We can enjoy all the Worship on any day, everyday.

6) There is no specific instruction on the choice of the day for the Worship service. "

GE:

You have two problems with all this: 1. Scripture; 2. Reality.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"Sunday worship is pagan and therefore must be prohibited : Wrong"

GE:

Here is how Scripture and reality deal with this: Galatians 4:9-11.

You realise what it means Paul saying he was afraid he worked for those Galatians for nothing? It meant if they went back to their old idolatrous horoscopic veneration of days and stuff, Christ meant nothing for them - even if they circumcised themselves under the delusion they could force the arm of God!

So, Sunday worship is pagan, and therefore must be prohibited, Or the one practicing it, shall be cut off from Christ. It's wrong; it isn't right! Not if Scripture meant anything; not if reality meant anything.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Eliyahu:

"Worship service must be on Sabbath : Wrong"

GE:

So throw away, no, burn, all four Gospels - the whole New Testament - if one's 'MUST' must be Jesus Christ alive before death as well as after death; if one's 'MUST', must be the Church and its ultimate conclusions on everything intrinsically, essentially and necessarily, Christian.