What did Change between Adam and God in the Fall?

[JesusFan]

If you hold to Adam did not have spiritual life before the fall, then what actually changed between him and God, as before knew not was a sinner, nor fear of God?

 

[JonC]

What happened to Adam by eating the fruit was his eyes were opened (Gen 3:7) and he become like God, knowing good and evil (Gen 3:22). Adam would return to the ground, "for dust you are and to dust you will return" (Gen 3:19).

Because of Adam the ground was cursed and he would work it until he died (Gen 3:17).

Since Adam had become like God, knowing good and evil, God said he must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. So the God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. (Gen 3:22-23).


Who cares what ideas or theories men hold? We are children of God and we have God's Word.

Your answer is in Genesis 3.

 

[Some Rando]

^This^
Jon C's post covered it completely.
That is everything the Bible teaches changed, and it is all that is necessary to believe or should be assumed.
Genesis says nothing about this "Spiritual Life".

I do know that when a Systematic Theologian wishes to invent or defend a novel doctrine which is not found in Scripture he need simply add the descriptor:
"Spiritually" or "Spiritual" no matter how non-sensical or ad hoc his explanation is.

 

[JonC]

^This^
Jon C's post covered it completely.
That is everything the Bible teaches changed, and it is all that is necessary to believe or should be assumed.
Genesis says nothing about this "Spiritual Life".

I do know that when a Systematic Theologian wishes to invent or defend a novel doctrine which is not found in Scripture he need simply add the descriptor:
"Spiritually" or "Spiritual" no matter how non-sensical or ad hoc his explanation is.

Years ago I was fascinated by theology, so much so I earned a degree in the field.

At the time the idea was theology would develop and reveal more truths of Scripture. Men studied the Bible and developed doctrine, then that doctrine was treated as truth. Men studied that doctrine and developed more doctrines.

But what I have found is that this was ultimately a move away from God's Word.

With this topic, Augustine developed a theory based on a Latin mistranslation of Romans 5 (ἐφ᾽ ᾧ was mistranslated as the Latin equivalent of "with"), which led him to conclude we all sinned spiritually with Adam. Over the next few centuries the Catholic Church would develop a doctrine of Original Sin where Adam, and all mankind with him, died spiritually.


Yeats poem illustrates this:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;


A theory becomes "truth" and forms the base for another theory, which becomes "truth", and the process continues until you have "truth" completely divorced from the original source.

When faced with choosing between tradition and God's Word, many will always choose tradition. I believe this is what God warned us about when He told us not to ne carried away by philosophy.

 

[Some Rando]

Years ago I was fascinated by theology, so much so I earned a degree in the field.

At the time the idea was theology would develop and reveal more truths of Scripture. Men studied the Bible and developed doctrine, then that doctrine was treated as truth. Men studied that doctrine and developed more doctrines.

But what I have found is that this was ultimately a move away from God's Word.

With this topic, Augustine developed a theory based on a Latin mistranslation of Romans 5 (ἐφ᾽ ᾧ was mistranslated as the Latin equivalent of "with"), which led him to comclude we all sinned spiritually with Adam. Over the next few centuries the Catholic Church would develop a doctrine of Original Sin where Adam, and all mankind with him, died spiritually.


Yeats poem illustrates this:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;


A theory becomes "truth" and forms the base for another theory, which becomes "truth", and the process continues until you have "truth" completely divorced from the original source.

When faced with choosing between tradition and God's Word, many will always choose tradition. I believe this is what God warned us about when He told us not to ne carried away by philosophy.

This is my experience as well.
I also was in love with God's Word and believed that studying "Theology" was the way to gain a deeper understanding of it.
I similarly got a degree in "Theology". I have come to believe that this is a degree in a field invented by man, and only necessitated by man's refusal to accept the simplicity of Scriptural teaching on many topics.
I realized that the Scripture is not a book of Systematic Theology and Paul not a Systematic Theologian.

As a discipline it is like government interventionism.
Government sees a problem, responds with government intervention, and funds it with greater taxation. This creates an even greater problem and government then responds with even greater interference creating ever-larger government intervention.

With Theology it is the same:
Simple (and usually unimportant) questions are posed. Theologians then intercede and create ever lengthier tomes to answer those questions which didn't exist before or need to be asked until Theologians created the problem by answering a previous question they likely didn't need to bother asking..........and on and on it goes.

 

[JonC]

This is my experience as well.
I also was in love with God's Word and believed that studying "Theology" was the way to gain a deeper understanding of it.
I similarly got a degree in "Theology". I have come to believe that this is a degree in a field invented by man, and only necessitated by man's refusal to accept the simplicity of Scriptural teaching on many topics.
I realized that the Scripture is not a book of Systematic Theology and Paul not a Systematic Theologian.

As a discipline it is like government interventionism.
Government sees a problem, responds with government intervention, and funds it with greater taxation. This creates an even greater problem and government then responds with even greater interference creating ever-larger government intervention.

With Theology it is the same:
Simple (and usually unimportant) questions are posed. Theologians then intercede and create ever lengthier tomes to answer those questions which didn't exist before or need to be asked until Theologians created the problem by answering a previous question they likely didn't need to bother asking..........and on and on it goes.

It sounds corny, but since I have realized that the Bible teaches what is actually written I have found a depth of Scripture that remained unrealized when I thought I was learning "deep" truths through what ended up being nothing but philosophy. It is hard to put into words.

 

[JesusFan]

It sounds corny, but since I have realized that the Bible teaches what is actually written I have found a depth of Scripture that remained unrealized when I thought I was learning "deep" truths through what ended up being nothing but philosophy. It is hard to put into words.

The bible actually teaches that Adam had spiritual life when created, as was in a communion and relationship with God, and lost that when he fell into sinning

 

[JonC]

The bible actually teaches that Adam had spiritual life when created, as was in a communion and relationship with God, and lost that when he fell into sinning

Only if the Bible teaches something foreign to what is written in God's Words.

When we start drifting from God's Word and into theories about what might be taught by the Bible we always end up with fakse doctrine.

God gave us His Word for a reason. It was not to decide what God "really" meant, or what the Bible "really" teavhes. God's Word IS what the Bible teaches.

Men do teach a lot of different theories, claiming it is what the Bible "really" teaches. BUT try to find those things in the actual Bible. You cannot.

We are called to believe God's Word, not to decide what God "really" meant. For a moment just pretend that God meant everything word of Scripture and that His Word IS His teaching.

WHAT IF the Bible actually teaches "what is written" (the "words coming forth from God") ratger than what men think is taught but not actually recorded in Scripture?