Featured What do BB Arminians Believe?

I question the premise that "Classical Arminianism" affirms salvation cannot be lost. Jesus said, if you are not for me, you are against me. To dangle the "possibility" of loss of salvation as an incentive to due diligence may seem wise, but the ends do not justify the means.

Scripture seems clear to me, they go out from us because they are not of us, i.e never born again. Thus you can think you were once saved, and then reject Jesus, but from my side of the street, you were never saved, just another tare spreading falsehood over truth.

Lets look at the first part of the first sentence, "incorporated into Christ" by "true" faith. Are we put into Christ by our faith or by God putting us there? Who decides whether or not our "faith" is true? Scripture says God does when He credits it as righteousness.

Do we become partakers of the Spirit when we learn from the gospel, or only when we are sealed in Christ. Just exactly what is meant by this ill defined phrase may underlie the division on the loss of salvation issue.

The Arminian positions held by various Arminians are:
a) Salvation might be lost
b) Salvation can be intentionally lost
c) Salvation can be unintentionally lost.

1. Arminians believe Christ died for all mankind, not just for the elect.

2. Arminians believe in Total Spiritual Inability, but that God has overridden the inability with Prevenient grace.

3. Arminians believe the grace of God's call through the gospel is resistible, so we feel the tug (i.e. Christ high and lifted up draws all men) but can reject it.

4. Arminians believe we are born again when we put our faith in Christ. They affirm when we believe we are united with Christ. But they are vague on the mechanism of becoming united, "incorporated in Christ by true faith". It appears they think a person becomes united "automatically" and seem not to address the view that those whose faith God credits as righteousness, are united with Christ by His supernatural act of transferring us from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of the Son. My view is we are "incorporated into Christ" by God spiritually transferring us from our separated from God sinful state in Adam, to the Kingdom of the Son when God puts us spiritually in Christ And God takes this action based on crediting our faith as righteousness.

5. Arminians believe our individual election for salvation is conditioned on our autonomous faith in Christ. The article did not seem to address whether that election was God's before creation, or the person choosing to believe somehow becoming elect when automatically "incorporated" in Christ. In other words, when does God elect us individually, before creation or during our lifetime. And the second question is: Are we elected when God credits our faith and puts us in Christ, or are we elected automatically when we put ourselves in Christ?

6. Arminians believe believers who have been "incorporated" into Christ are predestined to "final salvation." How that fits with the possibility of loss of salvation seems unclear. On the one hand if we are predestined to final salvation, salvation cannot be lost, and on the other hand we might be predestined to final salvation provided we do not intentionally turn aside.

7. Arminians either take no position (i.e. possible loss of salvation is not denied) or they believe salvation can be lost by the individual's choice to not persevere in the faith.

8. Arminians reject penal substitution (code for limited atonement) but affirm penal satisfaction, explained as substitutionary atonement.

9. Arminians believe God knows the future exhaustively and are willing to ban anyone from their midst that does not agree.

10. Arminians believe God either causes or allows all things, but does not predestine all things. Therefore humans make autonomous decisions, affirming our culpability for our sins. Arminians do not believe we are predestined to believe. Therefore, God does not predestine everything. "Predestination" can refer to a doctrine such as the Calvinist view, but when I use the word, I simply mean what the word means, which is for God to decide to cause something to occur in the future. Thus God does not cause us to believe, because I agree with the Arminians, God did not predestine us to believe. So God predestines some things, like believers placed spiritually in Christ are then predestined to be "conformed to the image of His Son."

Did not see any response to these questions:

1) Exactly what does "incorporated in Christ by true faith" mean? Arminians believe we are born again when we put our faith in Christ. They affirm when we believe we are united with Christ. But they are vague on the mechanism of becoming united, "incorporated in Christ by true faith". It appears they think a person becomes united "automatically" and seem not to address the view that those whose faith God credits as righteousness, are united with Christ by His supernatural act of transferring us from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of the Son.

2) Exactly what does being a "partaker of the Spirit" mean? Do we become partakers of the Spirit when we learn from the gospel, or only when we are sealed in Christ?

 

Thanks for the crystal clear explanation.

Lets set that aside, with the caveat that the four pointers, seem to be more in tune with most Baptists.

Can you explain how Arminians of any particular flavor, believe we are "incorporated into Christ."

 

Lets leave the 'loss of salvation" issue behind, for now, and focus on how Arminians believe they are "incorporated into Christ."

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but no one claimed the list was exhaustive. Note it did not include the "four point" or modified Arminian position or your Arminian/Molinist position, which is simply Calvinism in camouflage.

The question which I have asked is how do Arminians believe they are "incorporated into Christ." One poster said God puts them in Christ but did not discuss the basis of the action. And for sure, there are other views, i.e. the Corporate Election Arminian view. Anyone care to explain that one?

 

Hi Skandelon, apparently you are saying when God puts a person in Christ, their regeneration is irresistible! Now if you would just describe the basis God uses to put a person in Christ, for only after a person is spiritually in Christ are they "sealed in Christ."