What do we do? Church politics and problems...(very long)

Praying too....

Just make sure your next church has a constitution....
That would have taken care of a lot of the problems.

BTW, are you still able to worship God there when you go on Sundays?
That should give you a signal on what to do.
Worship is the purpose we go to church.

If I couldn't worship God, I would go where I could.

 

Two basic kinds of churches:

1. The "God, you're gonna have to make me stay" church.
2. The "God, you're gonna have to make me leave" church.

This one is the first.

 

How are you an organized church with no constitution and bylaws?

 

Doodlebug, I'm surprised you've held out this long. This begs the question of why have you and dh stayed as long as you have? Hope that it will get better? It doesn't sound like it's going to get better anytime soon.

 

My advice- make like Joseph!

 

Praying for you...

As you and your husband talk of this, remind him gently that your children (if you have any at home) will likely think that this is what "church is supposed to be like." Maybe a move would save them from later woundedness. Generations behind you two could be harmed because of a infighting, caustic, rebellious church.

Having said that, if your husband insists on staying, pray for him and support him.

 

The reason most pastors who know what a church can be reduced to such as you've described, and I would have to consider my intent of revealing so many different problems as you have, is to surround himself with people he knows stand with him on the issues. that pastor then wouldn't have any problem making the decisions to honour the desires of the Lord in the church being more like He wants it to be. Instead it seems men have run amuck and done the usual thing and mess up what would otherwise be a good ol' country church.

I use caution in what I'm about to say, mainly becuase I get to hear many gripe about their respective churches: the man who follows the Lord is the head of the wife and he should be more responsible in the decisions of this nature in regard to church affairs. I often request the wife of anyone who makes any major complaints to go with her husband to the pastor and let them discuss your concerns. If that pastor opens the door for your comments then that's his business.

This will help the pastor make a rational judgement by how your husband responds and make it possible to see the spirituality of the situation surrounding your family and the church.

I'm afraid what you offered is alot of complaints about the leadership in the church and this should be orchestrated by only the men.

God will honour the scriptural way of hashing these complaints of yours out, don't forget, people will always act just like people. God's man is the one who God allows the discernment in these affairs to be wrought out the way that God will receive the honour and glory only He deserves.

All churches have problems and many of the problems they have are caused by those who complain to others alot and seem to know everything that goes on in the church. I do know if this is a very small church that it can't be helped to know about most of what goes on, but iIlike to make sure i don't know about everything!:tear:

 

I can so relate to your frustration and how it makes you feel spiritually, emotionally and physically. When I married my DH, the church he was attending was the church he had attended since age 8. I grew up in the Midwest and attended many churches of all sizes - very small to very large. I had never attended a church that was as dysfunctional as "his".

From the start I did not feel comfortable, but decided to just pray that God would lead us elsewhere if it was His will and that He would have to lead DH to make the final decision. I never came out and told DH I did not want to be there. See, his parents and sister attended there and I did not want them to hold it against me when/if we left. I also wanted DH to be clear that he was the head of the family. I prayed for 6 years.

DH was the head of the finance committee and a trustee and he was the music leader. I told God that I didn’t want to be there, but I would serve while I was there. By the time we left, I was the head of junior church and the nursery, I put together the bulletin and decorated the front of the sanctuary and I was the church treasurer. I made it clear in the meeting where I was voted in as treasurer that I didn't want anyone to have a problem with me being treasurer and DH being head of finances. I have experience cleaning up financial records. I only took the position after discovering that the former treasurer had not kept up with the books or bills. Instead of the $10,000 bank balance she had guessed at, there was really only $100. There was no money missing - there was just no concept of bookkeeping. My discovery kept the church from making a huge financial error, much to the pastor's relief and dismay. See, he wanted the church to fund a missions trip. He had waited til the last minute to raise funds and everyone had to scramble to find money to go because he told them not to worry - he would get the church to pay for the trip. OOPS. :tonofbricks:

The pastor stated from the pulpit that if the church constitution did not allow him to do what he wanted, it needed to be thrown out. And he said if there were people who did not agree with what he wanted to do, they needed to leave rather than hinder him. All this was in reference to how he had been spending church money on church projects without following procedures.

Anyway. My best friend told me during the turmoil, "It will get worse before it gets better." And it did. DH took a real beating by the pastor and the men of the church. We were running in the red (for 3 years, I discovered) and even after showing them the figures and the future estimates, they insisted on giving the pastor a raise and increasing the budget and said DH was not living by faith when he said he could not support that decision. We found out through this situation that the pastor had lied on 2 occasions and had been deceptive on a third - all to save face and to manipulate situations to do what he wanted with the church finances. DH talked to 2 deacons who agreed the pastor was out of line, but they would not do anything. :BangHead:

For months, DH and I felt as if we were constantly sick and church consumed us. We gave up leading praise and worship. We were not happy about giving money to the church for the leadership to misuse. We were not happy about attending church at all. The final straw for me was when one of the women in the church protested the notice I posted in the nursery. It was a short list of common sense things for the workers to be sure to do. I had also proposed having a card for each child with general likes/dislikes and instructions - including who was allowed to take the child from the nursery. (I had a 2 year old and a newborn and I was very angry that ladies and teens from the church felt comfortable taking them from the nursery.) The pastor sided with the lady who said she didn't want visitors to think the church ran everything with a bunch of rules.

I sent DH to the church to remove every thing there that was ours - including the flowers at the front of the church. All this took place just before Christmas. Christmas Eve service was so sweet – we visited the “other SB church” in town. We were joyful to be there. We gave our offering happily. We worshipped! We spent 3 months visiting churches in our area and each week we were excited to be fed. I have to say, when we finally made the decision to leave, it was a HUGE burden rolled away. I gave them a copy of the junior church curriculum I had put together and I stayed on as treasurer long enough to train in the new lady - they found someone to be a check writer - not a treasurer.

We found a new church and although we are learning some of the issues here as it is IFB, the pastor strives to do things decently and in order.

DH decided that DS and DD would follow our example concerning church and our feelings and attitudes for it and he did not want to bring them up in a church where we did not respect the leadership – deacons/trustees/finance committee and/or pastor.

I will pray that you and DH find peace in the midst of this storm and that DH will have the clarity of thought and discernment to do what is best for his family. I will pray that you have patience with DH to hear God’s leading and that you will all come through this storm more blessed and at peace than you can imagine. :godisgood:

 

Due to the weather, we were unable to go to the business meeting. Our pastor's vote was 95% for him, and only 4 people voted against him.

This whole thing sounds like the old fellow that got a call from his wife as he was driving on I95. His wife yelled to him, "honey be careful I just heard on the news that some nut is driving the wrong way on the interstate" to which he replied, One nut, there is a whole lot of nuts here, they are all going the wrong way.

I am leaning more toward the pastor all the time!

 

excellent advice Scarlett! doodlebug, I suggest that Scarlett's advice here is the absolute best you could get and I think you should print her post out and tape it to your mirror or 'frigerator. Seriously.

Im praying for you sister!

 

I've been through this too, but my situation was somewhat different from yours.

I married into my husband's small country church that was led by one certain family and where it seemed the Bible was followed selectively. (ie, black folk were welcome to VBS but not regular services, there was a huge fuss when the volunteer music minister brought he music in an old liquour box, church members would speak on Sunday but not know you through the week and on and on) But, it was close to where he lived and he and his parents had always gone there and there were "reasons" why we couldn't attend any other church in the area (and these too were run by the "founding family"). So off we went.

About two years into our marriage, my husband's parents began having problems and dropped out of church. We were having our own problems and just gradually quit attending. At the time, I thought things would blow over, eventually.

The church was having it's own problems. Infighting, control issues, giving was down and there came the need for a new pastor who the church couldn't support. DH didn't want to be involved and so we weren't and didn't need to be what with everthing that was going on at home anyway.

About two years later, our marriage problems came to a head at just about the time our first child was born. We still on again, off again, but these problems put an end to our going to church, period. We dealt with our problems (with no help, I might add from anyone in the church), but DH wasn't going back to church. Did I say that we hadn't been visited by anyone from the church during this 4 years of declining church attendence? Of course, there was no one who could. We chose to deal with our problems privately, others just fought them out in the presence of God and country. The church was down to less than 50 members by this time.

Well God wasn't just going to let me get away with not going to church and not raising my daughter to go to church. DH again said, if we can't go here, I'm not going. So, despite the problems, I went there. DH didn't. For the next 5 or 6 years I went to this church and took my kids, by myself. The worst of the infighting was over, cause those who caused it died off. But it left the church with very few members. By the time my third child was born and DH still wouldn't go to the only church he allowed was good enough, the Lord led me to look for a change. At this time, it wasn't the infighting that was the problem. The problem was that DH wasn't going and I felt that my children needed to hear about Christ from someone other than me. I was the only one teaching them at home and I was also their SS teacher.

Did I discuss things with DH? Yes. But, since he refused to go to church, wasn't living a Christian lifestyle and also wouldn't take the responsibility to teach our children about Christ, I had no choice but to take this matter into my own hands and go where I felt the Lord was leading me. He led me to the church where we attend now. It took nearly two years, but DH also moved his membership when I moved mine.

Back to the old church. It took the church nearly dying before it changed it's ways. It's been a good 10 years since I was a member there and only now is the church beginning to make a comeback, thanks to a few faithful members who worked tirelessly to make the changes needed. The selfishness and the power mongering were the first things that had to go. But, those go easily when there is no power to be had! My inlaws are finally back in church (after nearly 15 years) at that church and the atmosphere is such that they are amazed.

Whether to stay or to go, is an individual decision that can only be made by the individual and God and in your case, Doodlebug with your husband. My only advice would be, if your husband insists on sticking with this church, you will have to take the good with the bad and keep your mouth shut. Sounds ugly doesn't it? I don't mean it to be, but, it is your husband's duty first to deal with issues in the church. If he won't deal with them, sit back, relax and let them go on. You as a woman stepping in front of your husband's decision to do nothing is what Paul was describing as usurping authority. You say, "you left a whole church behind because your husband wouldn't deal with it." But in my case, my husband refused to deal with more than just church issues. He refused to deal with spiritual issues at all. It was as though he weren't a Christian at all. I had no choice. I would have been thrilled if my husband had darkened the church doors even if he didn't deal with church politics.

You have a husband who seems willing to lead. Let him! Trust your husband enough to let him set the manner in which your family responds to church mess. At least until he abandons all pretense of living life as a Christian. Only then should you pick up the full responsibility of leading your children to Christ. It's a heavy load and not one I would wish on anyone.

 

doodlebug,

Run. Run far. Run far far away.

Go to a bible-believing and preaching church.

 

Amen to that. While lots of posts above have alluded to the fact that men are in positions of leadership, and that the wife should follow the leadership of the husband, it is also a Biblical command that the husband love his wife as Christ loved the church. This being so, it is up to the husband to take the lead, realize that his wife cannot worship God in the immoral and carnival atmosphere you describe. Look, there is strife at work, strife with kids etc, church is the one place one should not have to put up with that. To the husband of doodlebug, use your Godly leadership and lead your family to a place where true worship can take place, and stop with the soap opera and politics.