What do you call a Christian...

[HeDied4U]

No, this isn't the start of a joke, although a few do come to mind

My question is of a more serious nature. What do you call a Christian who writes erotic short stories?

I just found out yesterday that my brother, who I consider to be one of the strongest Christians I know, enjoys writing erotic fiction. He's always been a good writer, but he usually stays in the realms of sci-fi or mysteries, but yesterday he told me that for the last month or so he's been dabbling in stuff of an erotic nature.

He said he got the idea from the TV show 7th Heaven. It seems that a while back, the lead character, a minister on a leave of absence due to health problems, decided he wanted to write a steamy novel. My brother's reasoning is that if it's okay for a preacher to write steamy stuff, it's okay for him. I tried telling him that that's TV, and not real life, but he's taken to the idea of writing that stuff.

I did do a quick look at one of his stories, and it wasn't pornographic at all. Just steamy/erotic love scenes and all that (of course, some poeple would (and do) consider steamy/erotic love scenes porn).

I told him that those types of stories do not bring glory to God, but his response was that God gave him the talent to write, so "why shouldn't he be able to write those stories?"

Seeing that I'm somewhat out of my depth here, I wanted to get your opinions/thoughts/comments. He said he would look at the answers, so that's a good sign, isn't it?

Thanks, and God Bless!!!

Adam

 

[Shqippy]

I see no reason to "call" him anything but your brother, or a writer, or whatever he wishes to be called. The idea of Christians writing erotic literature is far from new; Walker Percy & D. H. Lawrence immediately spring to mind. Check out Percy's novel, The Second Coming.

 

[HankD]

If by an "erotic" story you mean one that details an episode involving fornication (in its biblical meaning) then to me it doesn't seem proper for a Christian to read or write. However, there are some "steamy" accounts of sin in the Scripture but they don't glamorize the sin and the outcome is always bad (David/Bathsheba).

...that which is not of faith is sin.

HankD

 

[Illinoisboy]

My first response, in regards to God giving him the talent to write, would be to write something edifying for believers. God gives us talent to do things, to that there is no doubt, but those talents should be used to strenghten and edify believers not lead them to think things that can lead to sin in their lives. If nothing else he could be guilty of being a stumblingblock to others. Since he admits his idea came from T.V. and not God, then it is safe to say there is nothing divine about it. I would share Phil. 4:8 with him and exhort him to write things that lead to that thinking.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I think your brother is treading in dangerous water. Gifts from God are always good. Satan tries to pervert them and use them for evil; it sounds like what he is doing with this writing talent.

Sin will take you farther than you want to go...
Sin will keep you longer than you want to stay...
Sin will cost you more than you're willing to pay...

It may seem like dabbling to him right now; but when you dabble in sin, that is the beginning of backsliding. Satan will grab hold of that and run with it!

I know a lot of people watch 7th Heaven; but on that show, they surely do NOT live separated lives from the world. I don't think it's a good example of Christ-like behavior. The characters on that show have been involved in every conceivable type of sin. It's like a soap opera.

Pray that God will show this young man that he is headed in the wrong direction.

JMO
Sue

 

[Don]

I told him that those types of stories do not bring glory to God, but his response was that God gave him the talent to write, so "why shouldn't he be able to write those stories?"

I have found, through my training and experiences with the Air Force, that I have a talent for hurting people.

Should I act on it?

[ February 10, 2003, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[Johnv]

What do you call a Christian who writes erotic short stories?

I call that person a Christian who writes erotic short stories.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by HeDied4U:
No, this isn't the start of a joke, although a few do come to mind

My question is of a more serious nature. What do you call a Christian who writes erotic short stories?

A writer.

I'm a writer too. A novel I'm working on has a sex scene (integral to the plot) and an erotically-charged scene in the first chapter. In a previous book I edited for someone else, I added a very brief sex scene because a section of the book wouldn't make sense without it. (That scene was not graphic but consisted of what a adolescent boy hears two adults doing.) The author wasn't comfortable writing something like that (he thought it might be too graphic), but I wrote a short paragraph for him and he asked me to include it.

I just found out yesterday that my brother, who I consider to be one of the strongest Christians I know, enjoys writing erotic fiction. He's always been a good writer, but he usually stays in the realms of sci-fi or mysteries, but yesterday he told me that for the last month or so he's been dabbling in stuff of an erotic nature.

Excellent! Erotic stuff is difficult to write properly. The basic rule of erotic writing is not to be graphic, but to suggest most of the action in the scene.

He said he got the idea from the TV show 7th Heaven. It seems that a while back, the lead character, a minister on a leave of absence due to health problems, decided he wanted to write a steamy novel. My brother's reasoning is that if it's okay for a preacher to write steamy stuff, it's okay for him. I tried telling him that that's TV, and not real life, but he's taken to the idea of writing that stuff.

Don't think 7th Heaven is a very good show, but he has a better justification than that... The Song of Songs (or Song of Solomon) is erotic poetry. While some of the allusions and references in the book don't do much for the modern English reader ("hair like a flock of goats", "breasts like two fawns"), it's fairly racy stuff if you read between the lines and notice what it is actually saying.

I did do a quick look at one of his stories, and it wasn't pornographic at all. Just steamy/erotic love scenes and all that (of course, some poeple would (and do) consider steamy/erotic love scenes porn).

Some people think sex is somehow dirty. Certainly erotic stories can be told in a way that brings glory to God, either by demonstrating a bad example with consequences or a good example and the joys of marital bliss.

I told him that those types of stories do not bring glory to God, but his response was that God gave him the talent to write, so "why shouldn't he be able to write those stories?"

Certainly the writer has an immense power when he or she creates a story, so that power must be used responsibly. Certainly the Bible has many examples of sexual situations within its pages. A writer who is a Christian should know how to properly present eroticism. If Christians don't, we let the unbelievers set the standards for eroticism in our culture.

 

[superdave]

I am not sure what to think of that, but I would have to say that 7th heaven is definitely not what I would like anyone to view the proper lifestyle for a minister, Baptist or otherwise.

That show is a ridiculous crock, I would even go so far as to say it is in many ways harmful to most Christian values.

I would not use it as an example of appropriate practice for sure.

Also you have to remember that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. I would not want to judge your brother's heart condition without a great deal of more detailed information, but I would question why he thinks that erotic novels would ever be part of an appropriate thought life for a Christian. I guess it really depends on how erotic we are talking here.

 

[John Wells]

What do you call a Christian who writes erotic (steamy) short stories?

As some have hinted at here without quite hitting the nail on the head, it depends on which side of the marriage alter the "steam" is taking place! If fornication is described, it should be condemned. If marital sex is described, it should be for the purpose of adding substantially to the story and not just for amusement/entertainment. Although not explicitly identified as a sin in the Bible, voyeurism (visual or verbal) naturally defines itself as sin! Especially since Noah cursed Canaan (Ham, his son) for gazing upon his father's nakedness (voyeurism), and blessed Shem and Japheth for rectifying the situation! - Gen 9:21-27 God intended sex to be beautiful,
pleasurable, but private, between a husband and wife.

 

[kung_foo_christian]

Hmmm, well as long as the couple is married, all he's writing about is two people sharing a God given gift.
No different to the erotic writings penned in Song of Songs.
The gift of sex between a married couple is something to celebrate.
-KFC

 

[LauraB]

Hmmm, well as long as the couple is married, all he's writing about is two people sharing a God given gift.
__________________________________________________


A gift that is between a man and his wife and not for the public eye or ears. It is something sacrid between two people and writing about what goes on in a christian bed is wrong. I think it's the same as picking up a porno magazine and saying well it's ok to look at because they are christians!!!! We shouldn't be describing steamy sex weather it be of a christian marriage or un married...

 

[blackbird]

I've been waiting on someone like LauraB to come along--Amen, Sister! I would not dare tell my church from the pulpit what my wife and I do in private--

Take a look over in Ephesians 5: 12--"For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

Son or daughter--don't tell the public what people do in private(sexually)--even if its fiction and even if its a husband and a wife doing what is is that we do in private(sexually). What the Father and the Son did on the cross(spiritually) was a private thing(spiritually)--what your wife and you do in private is not to be manifested in public--even in a book.

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

[Acts 1:8]

Proverbs 20:5 The purposes of a man's heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by LauraB:
A gift that is between a man and his wife and not for the public eye or ears. It is something sacrid between two people and writing about what goes on in a christian bed is wrong. I think it's the same as picking up a porno magazine and saying well it's ok to look at because they are christians!!!! We shouldn't be describing steamy sex weather it be of a christian marriage or un married...

Originally posted by blackbird:
I've been waiting on someone like LauraB to come along--Amen, Sister! I would not dare tell my church from the pulpit what my wife and I do in private--

Take a look over in Ephesians 5: 12--"For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

Son or daughter--don't tell the public what people do in private(sexually)--even if its fiction and even if its a husband and a wife doing what is is that we do in private(sexually). What the Father and the Son did on the cross(spiritually) was a private thing(spiritually)--what your wife and you do in private is not to be manifested in public--even in a book.

Time to rip Song of Solomon out of your Bible.

An Exact-o knife should help you remove the pages without damaging anything you might want to keep.

When you're finished, you probably need to help other people in your church this coming Sunday. Tell everyone about the smut you found and have a special time of cleansing and removal of those parts of the Bible that are morally offensive.

 

[Illinoisboy]

I wondered how long it would be before someone brought up Song of Solomon. It is sad how we, as Christians, look for "loopholes" to excuse what we do or want to do. Even if they are married is there not something better to write about. Is what is being written causing others to think as Phil 4:8 would have them think, or are they thinking about sex. Also, if all you get out of Song of Solomon is that it is a license to write erotically then you have bigger issues.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Illinoisboy:
I wondered how long it would be before someone brought up Song of Solomon.

Yes. I actually brought it up in every one of my posts on this thread. This is the third mention. The reason it comes up is that it is extremely relevant to this topic. The straightforward meaning of the words of the Song of Solomon demonstrates it is a celebration of erotic love. Certainly there are other truths to draw out of the book, but it is primarily a love poem between two human lovers.

It is sad how we, as Christians, look for "loopholes" to excuse what we do or want to do.

Wow! What a statement. I’ll have to take it apart to properly phrase a response.

“…look for "loopholes…” — Since when is one of the 66 of the Bible a “loophole”? Are there only 65 inspired books of the Bible or are there 66? If you believe that the Song of Solomon is inspired, then we have an outstanding example of God inspiring Solomon to write a magnificent poem celebrating erotic love. (Yes, I know there are allusions that can be draw to Christ’s love for His people, but if that was the singular purpose of the book, then why didn’t God and Solomon write plainly about God’s love for His people?)

“to excuse what we do or want to do” – Your unspoken assumption here is that erotic writings are wrong and that the motivations of those who write on those subjects or who support that kind of writing are somehow doing wrong. I don’t think anyone here is trying to “excuse” anything, except for possibly those who have taken a position that, if it were consistent, would condemn part of the word of God.

“It is sad” — Yes it is sad how Christians can get things exactly backwards. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I’m really concerned about the way that people who allegedly hold a high view of scripture often deny the clear meaning of the words because of preconceptions.

Even if they are married is there not something better to write about.

I was unaware that erotic sexuality is somehow less holy of a topic than anything else. The Bible mentions sexual things frequently. Have you ever noticed how many times the Bible mentions that a man “knew” his wife? And then of course there’s the whole Song of Solomon text…

Is what is being written causing others to think as Phil 4:8 would have them think, or are they thinking about sex.

Phillipians 4:8 “Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.”

Human sexuality can be true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, of good repute, excellent and worthy of praise. If you don’t understand that, you really need to reexamine your views of sexuality according to the Bible.

Also, if all you get out of Song of Solomon is that it is a license to write erotically then you have bigger issues.

Certainly the Song of Solomon is not a license, but an example. If you can’t see that the Song of Solomon is erotic writing inspired and sanctioned by God, then you have bigger issues than we can address here.

 

[LauraB]

I agree with Illinoisboy..... Remember the old movies, a man and a women looking at each other and the girl goes into his arms and he slightly dips her and comes real close to her face but actually does not touch, and next scene is the next day etc... Everyone knew what they were about to do and what they did without it being shown like in the movies of today.

Stop looking in the Bible for an excuse to sin! Don't take things out of context. Some things you don't need to talk about, and what goes on in a marriage is private and christians don't need to be writing about sex, or lusty dreams. Leave all that to the devil, he is doing a good job of that already!

I don't talk to anyone about mine and my husbands doings in our bed. It is no ones business. And for a christian to write smutt like that then I would have to question his or her morals.

Adam, you need to help your brother see it is wrong, he needs to think more like a christian and stop listening to Satan. He will only cause him harm and bring him down. He needs to stay with God... I will pray about this ...
LauraB

 

[TheOliveBranch]

I would think that the Song of Solomon is all that needs to be said on the subject. Why give your own writings when all we need to read has already been given.

This world is filled enough with those things which are done in private and don't need to be spoken of. The world has it's own problems. I see the "Christian" writings as the bridge connecting the world and Christianity. Too many people see this as ok because the Christian label is on it. It has become nothing less than a Christian soap opera in literary form perverting the Christian mind.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by LauraB:
I agree with Illinoisboy..... Remember the old movies, a man and a women looking at each other and the girl goes into his arms and he slightly dips her and comes real close to her face but actually does not touch, and next scene is the next day etc... Everyone knew what they were about to do and what they did without it being shown like in the movies of today.

We are talking about writing, not movies. There are differences in the way material is represented between the two art forms. We are not talking about visuals here, but the description of erotic love. When it is well done, it is not so much about body parts as it is about the communion of two people who are giving themselves to each other for pleasure and commitment.

Stop looking in the Bible for an excuse to sin!

Please stop making false accusations, especially with false assumptions regarding the alleged sinfulness of erotic writing.

Don't take things out of context.

Please read (or reread) the Song of Solomon, in context, from beginning to end. Then we can talk.

Some things you don't need to talk about, and what goes on in a marriage is private and christians don't need to be writing about sex, or lusty dreams. Leave all that to the devil, he is doing a good job of that already!

Christians have left it to “the devil” and the world and they have corrupted it. It’s about time Christians should be a force for good and for truth and present a healthy view of sex instead of shrinking back from our Christian responsibilities.

I don't talk to anyone about mine and my husbands doings in our bed. It is no ones business.

Fine. I don’t care to know about it.

And for a christian to write smutt like that then I would have to question his or her morals.

So I guess both God and Solomon are wrong. Those who compiled the Old Testament writings are wrong, the New Testament church that accepted the Song of Solomon is wrong, the Bible publishers through the ages (including those that publish the 1611 KJV) are wrong, and contemporary Christians are wrong if they accept that part of the Old Testament.

Adam, you need to help your brother see it is wrong,

Even if the Bible doesn’t condemn him?

he needs to think more like a christian

And less like Christ (God incarnate)?

and stop listening to Satan.

Or God’s word?

He will only cause him harm and bring him down. He needs to stay with God...

What if he is responding to God’s creative impulse to express a positive sexual ethic through words?

I will pray about this ...

Good advice for all of us. This thread is getting a little overheated.

And in addition to praying, maybe we should all reread Song of Solomon to get some perspective before we post again.