What do you say about this?

[Tazman]

The problem is that when you have such a hard time making different verses from the bible fit to each other then you can get such thoughts as "What if this isn't even genuine...".

True people think such things when something doesn't fit in with their preconceived ideas.

But the wrong place to go in thought is:

I'll make it fit or find some one to tell me what it means

or What if the bible is flawed?

or God didn't mean that...

This line of thinking will creat false bliefs based more on ideals rather than on scriptural fact

You simply get such thoughts. Or do you want to tell me that you do not also have problems making different things fit to each other?

Actually a lot of people on this board have this problem, but they have a solution to protect their broken theology. They manipulate the passages and make other scriptures null and void by their own conjecture.

It's not easy to make everything fit together

.

We don't have to MAKE anything fit together. But if we just Elevate Christ teachings above the apostles, then we will question the right people instead of questioning Jesus.

There are indeed problems and if you don't have the answers to solve them then you end up being confused.

Here are a few keys to approaching scripture:

1. Pray
2. Approach scripture with a clear slate (no preconceived ideas). This will help you avoid the common mistake of reading your assumptions into the passages
3. Start with the teachings of Jesus
4. Give each verse its litteral meaning within context
5. Keep in mind that the scripture could never mean what it never meant (this may seem like a no-brainer, but its important)
6. read other passages in light of Jesus' teachings
7. When confused after searching primary sources then consult secondary sources (this will not include your 14th and later "scholars"). Go to the people who were taught by the apostles: The Early Church Bishops and elders prior to 400 AD. Find our how they viewed these issues with "struggle" with todays christianity.
8. Finally - REJECT any line of reasoning the deems any scripture null or void.

These are good tools to start with.

 

[AAA]

That's part of a conversation between 2 persons. What do you say about the reply of person B? Is he right?

A:I don't understand this. Paul is talking about the freedom but then he goes on and names all kinds of sins and says that nobody who does this will inherit the Kingdom of God! This doesn't sound like freedom but rather like a threat.

B: If you don't honor God, how can he honor you? If you don't work to perfect yourself each day, then why should you be able to inherit the kingdom with God? Part of being saved is obediance. You are not saved in spite of obediance. A person who claims Christ as their saviour, but lives like hell, is more than likely destined to hell.

Jesus Christ did say that we will know them by thier fruit, Howevre, we Can't work to be perfect, it is God that will make us perfect in HIS sight by the BLOOD of JESUS Christ and what He has done on the cross to pay for our salvation.

We strive for excentlence, but we will only be perfect when we see HIM.......

Slavation is by God's GRACE, not our works...............

:godisgood:

 

[DQuixote]

people think such things when something doesn't fit in with their preconceived ideas.

But the wrong place to go in thought is:

I'll make it fit or find some one to tell me what it means

or What if the bible is flawed?

or God didn't mean that...

Excellent answer, short and sweet.

 

[xdisciplex]

You listen to Alan Cairns? I would steer away from him.

Why? Because you don't like him or because he doesn't agree with your theology?

I have listened to a lot of his sermons and I haven't yet discovered anything which rang my alarm. In my opinion he's a great preacher and also very knowledgable.

@ DQ

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...ection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Dr.^Alan^Cairns

 

[xdisciplex]

1. When confused after searching primary sources then consult secondary sources (this will not include your 14th and later "scholars"). Go to the people who were taught by the apostles: The Early Church Bishops and elders prior to 400 AD. Find our how they viewed these issues with "struggle" with todays christianity.

How is this supposed to work? Did those early christians write commentaries to every bible verse where you can simply look up every verse you don't understand?

 

[Tazman]

How is this supposed to work? Did those early christians write commentaries to every bible verse where you can simply look up every verse you don't understand?

Not every bible verse needs to be explained, however, they spent a lot of time refuting heresies of the early gnostics who called themselves christians. The funny thing is most of the arguments christians have today they had directly against gnostics.

So with that said I would recommend a book called "A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs"

The following link will take you to a few pages of its content:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1565633571/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-6285432-7299117#reader-link

This historian doesn't add his commentary to the writings, all he done was to take the time and compile comments they made from surrounding different topics like the one you started here.

The book is well worth it.

You can read most of the writings he reference online.

 

[xdisciplex]

This might be interesting but it's too bad that you cannot look up topics like healing,tongues or baptizm of the spirit. It would interest me if the book says anything about these things.

I also would like to know how much the modern theology of conservative christians differs from the theology of the early christians.

 

[BobRyan]

I did not say that James is not accurate. The problem is that when you have such a hard time making different verses ?

Step 1 -- listen to God's Word not DQ not Cairns.

Step 2 -- pay attention to the details.

Step 3 -- do Steps 1 and 2 in an attitude of prayer not gaming.

Notice the "detail here" -

1Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Paul says "do not be deceived" and then shows the correct view -- a view that DQ and a few others here would not be comfortable with --

But if you stop trying to "make the bible fit your views" and just read and accept it - then as James says "you become an effectual doer" and not a "judge of the Word of God"

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

xdx if I were you I would put BobRyan on ignore. He is going to feed you a lot of misinformation that will only serve to confuse you, not help you. His is a works salvation, a works perserveance. Jesus didn't pay the price in full so that you would have to fear and tremble trying to figure out what to keep, what not to keep, what to do, what not to do. Christ is the end of the law for those who believe.

That is DQ's approach -- mine is to accept the Bible instead of having to try to figure out which texts to run away from.

Just accept the Word of God - instead.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[James_Newman]

For the nth thousandth time, being saved by faith alone and inheriting the kingdom through obedience are two different things. But I know that we cannot accept that a person might be saved and yet still be punished for sins, so we are going to go round and round about whether or not saved people can sin, or if certain sins will cause you to lose your free gift of salvation. Round and round and round and round.....

 

[Tazman]

This might be interesting but it's too bad that you cannot look up topics like healing,tongues or baptizm of the spirit. It would interest me if the book says anything about these things.

I also would like to know how much the modern theology of conservative christians differs from the theology of the early christians.

Oh, it differs a whole lot in many respects.

I'll Post some qoutes later... and PM You

 

[Tazman]

The Following are writing from Irenaeus (the pupil of Polycarp - and Polycarp the pupil of Apostle John). :

We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to fear, lest perchance, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom.
3. Thou wilt notice, too, that the transgressions of the common people have been described in like manner, not for the sake of those who did then transgress, but as a means of instruction unto us, and that we should understand that it is one and the same God against whom these men sinned, and against whom certain persons do now transgress from among those who profess to have believed in Him

XdiscipleX - you can read his entire message at the following link or similar:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vi.xxviii.html

I added the following for comparison:

41844184Rom. iii. 23. Paul said, “For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.”41854185Rom. xi. 17, 21.

Also, the book I posted to you earlier is more detailed the the clippings you were allowed to view online. You have to buy the whole thing. He catagorize grace, baptism, prayer, heaven, hell, etc. It really is a dictionary that is quite helpful.