Dave G
Well-Known Member
All,
In another thread I asked a member who disagrees with what are commonly called "the doctrines of grace" ( or what is very often referred to as "Calvinism", TULIP, etc. ), but what I see as the truth in summary form, what they see when they read the Scriptures like I do...
As a newspaper or book, line by line and chapter by chapter;
Paying careful attention to context and the words written on the page.
What I'm not doing is asking anyone for a summary that's been provided to them by a church, denomination, Bible college, seminary or system of theology.
What I am asking for is for someone to please pick a passage of the Bible that deals with election, predestination, calling, etc and simply let me know, in a detailed fashion, what they see when they read it for themselves...with no help from men or institutions of men.
Think, "commentary", like Matthew Henry, John Gill, Adam Clarke, etc., but without their help.
I'll start with Ephesians 1 and go through to verse 12:
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."
Keeping in mind that this is in the AV ( my preferred and only translation of God's word in the English ) and may pose a problem for some who are not used to reading it, I'd like to compare notes with anyone who is willing to perhaps go through a few passages just to see where we differ in our understandings.
In another thread I asked a member who disagrees with what are commonly called "the doctrines of grace" ( or what is very often referred to as "Calvinism", TULIP, etc. ), but what I see as the truth in summary form, what they see when they read the Scriptures like I do...
As a newspaper or book, line by line and chapter by chapter;
Paying careful attention to context and the words written on the page.
What I'm not doing is asking anyone for a summary that's been provided to them by a church, denomination, Bible college, seminary or system of theology.
What I am asking for is for someone to please pick a passage of the Bible that deals with election, predestination, calling, etc and simply let me know, in a detailed fashion, what they see when they read it for themselves...with no help from men or institutions of men.
Think, "commentary", like Matthew Henry, John Gill, Adam Clarke, etc., but without their help.
I'll start with Ephesians 1 and go through to verse 12:
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."
Keeping in mind that this is in the AV ( my preferred and only translation of God's word in the English ) and may pose a problem for some who are not used to reading it, I'd like to compare notes with anyone who is willing to perhaps go through a few passages just to see where we differ in our understandings.
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