what do you think of this?

[preacher4truth]

Did Jesus come literally and physically the first time? Or was that just "spiritually?" (This "spiritually" thing sounds a little odd to me)

Didn't the JW's say He came back "spiritually" during one of their false predictions?

"Spiritually" sounds like an excuse for not doing it right, to me, like a weakened version, and well, kind of embarrassing or something.

"Spiritually?"

Spiritually sounds like compromise to me. "You don't really think that He is REALLY coming back physically do you?" inquires the unbeliever. "Well, no, uh, lol...its..uh..."spiritual!!!"' nervously replies the Baptist church-goer. "Well, that is acceptable, sounds harmless to me!" replies the unbeliever. "Yes! Me too! Gulp!" gasps the red-faced Baptist.

I mean, I am really trying to believe this "spiritual" thing here fellows.

And what exactly is "spiritually" anyhow?

All those elements burning up with fervent heat in the NT, that's just spiritual stuff, or actual physical elements? 2 Peter3:12

If it's just "spiritually," it sounds like we could eat popcorn and watch it with 3-D glasses on. :laugh:

I believe He is coming literally and physically the Second time also. As He did the first time. Seems the disciples were told He would come again in like manner as they saw Him ascend.

Every eye shall see Him....all the nations shall weep at the Sign of the Son of Man in the heavens...&c

That's good enough for me. :thumbsup:

- Peace

 

[revmwc]

Are you saying that it's Abraham`s physical seed who are the real children of promise?

Are we to look for another elect race, royal priesthood, holy nation?

Are the Gentiles going to be the servants of the Jews?

Will there be a return to animal sacrifices?

A return to the law of Moses?

1. They are the children from the promised seed Isaac are they not? The seed promised was to be as the dust of the earth. We are Christ Spiritual Children the Jews are Gods chosen people. We both make up the children of promise if we have Christ as Saviour. They are the heirs of the land that was promised to Abraham.
Genesis 12:
6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.
7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
8 And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD.

Verse 7 that land would be to Abraham seed God made an unconditional covenant with Abraham here and again Gensis 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
The Land would be Abrahams seeds forever and that seed would be numbered as the dust of the earth.

Ezekial 45: 1 Moreover, when ye shall divide by lot the land for inheritance, ye shall offer an oblation unto the LORD, an holy portion of the land: the length shall be the length of five and twenty thousand reeds, and the breadth shall be ten thousand. This shall be holy in all the borders thereof round about.



2. Why would we need to look for "another elect race, royal priesthood, holy nation" we are a chosen generation a royal priest a holy nation as the Bride of Christ, the Church but Israel wasn't made that promise we were.

3. "Are the Gentiles going to be the servants of the Jews"
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Doesn't appear to say that nor will the Jews be servants of the gentiles anymore all will live and reign with Christ during His earthly Kingdom.

4. "Will there be a return to animal sacrifices"
Luke 22: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

Appears ther will be,

 

[kyredneck]

[snip]

...."Spiritually" sounds like an excuse for not doing it right, to me, like a weakened version, and well, kind of embarrassing or something...."Spiritually?"....And what exactly is "spiritually" anyhow?...

Have you been circumcised?:
in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; Col 1:11

Have you ever seen the Kingdom?:
......The kingdom of God cometh not with observation Lu 17:20
......Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jn 3:3

Have you ever had the door of the Kingdom opened for you?:
for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1:11

Have you ever partaken of the sweet benefits of the Kingdom?:
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Ro 14:17

Do find you find these things to be “embarrassing”?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1. They are the children from the promised seed Isaac are they not? The seed promised was to be as the dust of the earth. We are Christ Spiritual Children the Jews are Gods chosen people. We both make up the children of promise if we have Christ as Saviour. They are the heirs of the land that was promised to Abraham.
Genesis 12:

I am always reluctant to get into debates over eschatology with anyone who believes in the physical return of Christ, because we are in agreement about the one thing that really matters :1_grouphug: The rest is going to happen the way God has planned it and he hasn't asked my advice on the matter, nor yours. However, I'd like to make a couple of friendly observations.

1. You are referencing Gen 21:12 concerning Isaac. It is worth considering Rom 9:7-8 to explain this. After quoting the Genesis verse, Paul continues, 'That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of promise are counted as the seed.' (cf. also Rom 2:28-29; Phil 3:3). Consider Isaac for a moment. He is not Christ, but he is a type or foreshadowing of Christ: long promised, born miraculously, persecuted by his own kin (Ishmael), offered up by his father, who received him (figuratively- Heb 11:19) back from the dead. The children of God come from him (Rom 9:7; Heb 3:5b). It is worth reading Isaiah 54 prayerfully in the light of these points.

2. The Jews are never going to be anything remotely like as numerous as the dust of the earth. Abraham's seed is a spiritual one. He is father of those who believe (Gal 3:7).

3. There is only one people of God. (John 10:16; Eph 2:11-15). This is not 'Relacement Theology; it's Inclusion Theology. Believing Jew and believing Gentile all one in Christ Jesus. 'That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body and partakers of His promise in Christ through the Gospel' (Eph 3:6).

The land promised to Abraham is shown to be much bigger than Canaan (Rom 4:13. cf. Psalm 24:1; Matt 5:5).

As I say, I don't want to get into a verbal punch-up over this. I much appreciated your good work against the Hyper-Preterists. I would just urge you to think over what I've written.

Steve

 

[revmwc]

I am always reluctant to get into debates over eschatology with anyone who believes in the physical return of Christ, because we are in agreement about the one thing that really matters :1_grouphug: The rest is going to happen the way God has planned it and he hasn't asked my advice on the matter, nor yours. However, I'd like to make a couple of friendly observations.

1. You are referencing Gen 21:12 concerning Isaac. It is worth considering Rom 9:7-8 to explain this. After quoting the Genesis verse, Paul continues, 'That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of promise are counted as the seed.' (cf. also Rom 2:28-29; Phil 3:3). Consider Isaac for a moment. He is not Christ, but he is a type or foreshadowing of Christ: long promised, born miraculously, persecuted by his own kin (Ishmael), offered up by his father, who received him (figuratively- Heb 11:19) back from the dead. The children of God come from him (Rom 9:7; Heb 3:5b). It is worth reading Isaiah 54 prayerfully in the light of these points.

2. The Jews are never going to be anything remotely like as numerous as the dust of the earth. Abraham's seed is a spiritual one. He is father of those who believe (Gal 3:7).

3. There is only one people of God. (John 10:16; Eph 2:11-15). This is not 'Relacement Theology; it's Inclusion Theology. Believing Jew and believing Gentile all one in Christ Jesus. 'That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body and partakers of His promise in Christ through the Gospel' (Eph 3:6).

The land promised to Abraham is shown to be much bigger than Canaan (Rom 4:13. cf. Psalm 24:1; Matt 5:5).

As I say, I don't want to get into a verbal punch-up over this. I much appreciated your good work against the Hyper-Preterists. I would just urge you to think over what I've written.

Steve

Here is the prophecy concerning the inheritence of the LAND:

Ezekial 47:
13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.
14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.
15 And this shall be the border of the land toward the north side, from the great sea, the way of Hethlon, as men go to Zedad;
16 Hamath, Berothah, Sibraim, which is between the border of Damascus and the border of Hamath; Hazarhatticon, which is by the coast of Hauran.
17 And the border from the sea shall be Hazarenan, the border of Damascus, and the north northward, and the border of Hamath. And this is the north side.
18 And the east side ye shall measure from Hauran, and from Damascus, and from Gilead, and from the land of Israel by Jordan, from the border unto the east sea. And this is the east side.
19 And the south side southward, from Tamar even to the waters of strife in Kadesh, the river to the great sea. And this is the south side southward.
20 The west side also shall be the great sea from the border, till a man come over against Hamath. This is the west side.
21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.
22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.

Notice verses 22 and 23 the Gentiles will have a portion the stranger born in Israel will have a portion divided to them.

Here are the divisions of the Land when they are ingathered to the Land:

Ezekial 48: 1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.
8 And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it.

So the Israelites will inherit the Land as promised divided according to the above verse, Israel has never possessed the land as seen in Ezekial but the will in the Messianic Kingdom.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Thanks for your response, revmc,
You have, quite legitimately, picked upon the latter chapters of Ezekiel which are undoubtedly the greatest challenge for non-Dispensationalists.

However, I was a little disappointed that you didn't trouble to interact with any of the Scriptures that I provided but merely responded with some of your own. If we just stand at a distance and do nothing but lob Scripture texts at each other, we shall never come to any agreement, and we shall be in effect admitting that there are contradictions in Scripture, which I'm sure we would both deny.

I will try to come back to you with an alternative exegesis on Exek 47, but it won't be for a day or two because I'm away on business. In the meantime, may I ask you to have another look at the Scriptures I posted. Also, I'd be interested in your view on Rev 7:5-8 and why the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are missing but there are still 12 tribes in all.

Steve

 

[revmwc]

Thanks for your response, revmc,
You have, quite legitimately, picked upon the latter chapters of Ezekiel which are undoubtedly the greatest challenge for non-Dispensationalists.

However, I was a little disappointed that you didn't trouble to interact with any of the Scriptures that I provided but merely responded with some of your own. If we just stand at a distance and do nothing but lob Scripture texts at each other, we shall never come to any agreement, and we shall be in effect admitting that there are contradictions in Scripture, which I'm sure we would both deny.

I will try to come back to you with an alternative exegesis on Exek 47, but it won't be for a day or two because I'm away on business. In the meantime, may I ask you to have another look at the Scriptures I posted. Also, I'd be interested in your view on Rev 7:5-8 and why the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are missing but there are still 12 tribes in all.

Steve

Thought those were covered in my first post but will go back and look at them.

 

[kyredneck]

1. They are the children from the promised seed Isaac are they not? The seed promised was to be as the dust of the earth. We are Christ Spiritual Children the Jews are Gods chosen people.

You make a distinction between the two where the scriptures plainly say God does not:

8 And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15

The Church was FIRST made up ENTIRELY of Jews. When the natural branches are grafted back in, it will be into the Church. And what a glorious day that would be if there were a general incoming of the Jews back to the Church.

We both make up the children of promise if we have Christ as Saviour. They are the heirs of the land that was promised to Abraham.

That promise was literally fulfilled:

In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Gen 15:18
And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought tribute, and served Solomon all the days of his life. 1 Ki 4:21

As were all others that God had made to Israel:

There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21:45

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

16 Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise. Gal 3

2. Why would we need to look for "another elect race, royal priesthood, holy nation" we are a chosen generation a royal priest a holy nation as the Bride of Christ, the Church but Israel wasn't made that promise we were.

You contradict yourself here. You said, “We are Christ Spiritual Children the Jews are Gods chosen people.” You've just said the Jews are God's elect race.

The NT says that the Church is God's elect race, and that within the Church 'there can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus'.

3. "Are the Gentiles going to be the servants of the Jews"
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Doesn't appear to say that nor will the Jews be servants of the gentiles anymore all will live and reign with Christ during His earthly Kingdom.

Are you're saying that these OT prophecies ought not to be taken literally?:

1 For Jehovah will have compassion on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the sojourner shall join himself with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2 And the peoples shall take them, and bring them to their place; and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of Jehovah for servants and for handmaids: and they shall take them captive whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. Isa 14

22 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I will lift up my hand to the nations, and set up my ensign to the peoples; and they shall bring thy sons in their bosom, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their faces to the earth, and lick the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am Jehovah; and they that wait for me shall not be put to shame. Isa 49

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and foreigners shall be your plowmen and your vine-dressers.
6 But ye shall be named the priests of Jehovah; men shall call you the ministers of our God: ye shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7 Instead of your shame ye shall have double; and instead of dishonor they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess double; everlasting joy shall be unto them. Isa 61

I was under the assumption that the dispensationalist took all OT prophecies literally.

4. "Will there be a return to animal sacrifices"
Luke 22: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

Appears ther will be,

How you derive a return to the weak and beggarly elements of the law, being a shadow of the good things to come, from that passage is beyond me. The atonement of Christ nulified the Old Covenant sacrifices forever. Why do the Dispensationalists insist that there's going to be a return to bondage to that covenant that God has said that He NEVER took any pleasure in, or that had any redemptive value to begin with? This view is Judiaizing and again contradicts scripture:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

 

[Iconoclast]

:type:

You make a distinction between the two where the scriptures plainly say God does not:

8 And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15

The Church was FIRST made up ENTIRELY of Jews. When the natural branches are grafted back in, it will be into the Church. And what a glorious day that would be if there were a general incoming of the Jews back to the Church.



That promise was literally fulfilled:

In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Gen 15:18
And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought tribute, and served Solomon all the days of his life. 1 Ki 4:21

As were all others that God had made to Israel:

There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21:45

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

16 Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise. Gal 3



You contradict yourself here. You said, “We are Christ Spiritual Children the Jews are Gods chosen people.” You've just said the Jews are God's elect race.

The NT says that the Church is God's elect race, and that within the Church 'there can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus'.



Are you're saying that these OT prophecies ought not to be taken literally?:

1 For Jehovah will have compassion on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the sojourner shall join himself with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2 And the peoples shall take them, and bring them to their place; and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of Jehovah for servants and for handmaids: and they shall take them captive whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. Isa 14

22 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I will lift up my hand to the nations, and set up my ensign to the peoples; and they shall bring thy sons in their bosom, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their faces to the earth, and lick the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am Jehovah; and they that wait for me shall not be put to shame. Isa 49

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and foreigners shall be your plowmen and your vine-dressers.
6 But ye shall be named the priests of Jehovah; men shall call you the ministers of our God: ye shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7 Instead of your shame ye shall have double; and instead of dishonor they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess double; everlasting joy shall be unto them. Isa 61

I was under the assumption that the dispensationalist took all OT prophecies literally.



How you derive a return to the weak and beggarly elements of the law, being a shadow of the good things to come, from that passage is beyond me. The atonement of Christ nulified the Old Covenant sacrifices forever. Why do the Dispensationalists insist that there's going to be a return to bondage to that covenant that God has said that He NEVER took any pleasure in, or that had any redemptive value to begin with? This view is Judiaizing and again contradicts scripture:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

:type: this is another good and helpful post.:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[percho]

JF

what does this verse mean?

was a physical tabernacle literally rebuilt?

That us not speaking of tabernacle as in temple but as in the house of David.

I asked this question in the GB forum about Sunday School Quarterlys which no one ever answered and I believe it was the last post in the thread,

I was out of state and missed it. Just what was Jeremiah, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down,

And was he, to build, and to plant, the same thing he was to root out ect?

Was it not the throne ie the house of David being rooted out and so forth by Jeremiah? Was not God at this time overturning the throne of David?

I will ask again. Was Jeremiah to build and plant the same thing he was rooting out?

 

[percho]

Amos 9:8,9 saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, (Is this the same word for Gentiles?) Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein no pleasure. (Are these not the very same people?) My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations. (Gentiles) Ezekiel 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, (Is this the same word for Gentiles?) Verse 22 I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Jeremiah 3:14 I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. (Who are living as strangers in a foreign land among the Gentiles, nations, heathen?) (for his name - for mine holy name's sake) Verse 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, (James makes a statement that it is written in the prophets that this was going to happen and it is in many, many places. The next verse has nothing to do with this statement as proof of this statement. It is beginning a new statement. Rom. 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Began fifty days after the resurrection of Jesus the day of Pentecost the fulfilling of the feast/day of firstfruits that is of those called by God and given the firstfruits of the Spirit See Rom. 8:23)

Acts 15:16 After this (After what? After the fulfilling, which is still going on, of God taking out from among the nations a people for his name) I will return.

V18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

 

[Iconoclast]

That us not speaking of tabernacle as in temple but as in the house of David.

I asked this question in the GB forum about Sunday School Quarterlys which no one ever answered and I believe it was the last post in the thread,

I was out of state and missed it. Just what was Jeremiah, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down,

And was he, to build, and to plant, the same thing he was to root out ect?

Was it not the throne ie the house of David being rooted out and so forth by Jeremiah? Was not God at this time overturning the throne of David?

I will ask again. Was Jeremiah to build and plant the same thing he was rooting out?

In Jer29 he is telling the people to build and plant,etc in other words be prepared for the long haul...because after the captivity God will deal with them again...here is a great sermon on it;
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126069322

You will not hear a better sermon on this text.

 

[revmwc]

I am always reluctant to get into debates over eschatology with anyone who believes in the physical return of Christ, because we are in agreement about the one thing that really matters :1_grouphug: The rest is going to happen the way God has planned it and he hasn't asked my advice on the matter, nor yours. However, I'd like to make a couple of friendly observations.

1. You are referencing Gen 21:12 concerning Isaac. It is worth considering Rom 9:7-8 to explain this. After quoting the Genesis verse, Paul continues, 'That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of promise are counted as the seed.' (cf. also Rom 2:28-29; Phil 3:3). Consider Isaac for a moment. He is not Christ, but he is a type or foreshadowing of Christ: long promised, born miraculously, persecuted by his own kin (Ishmael), offered up by his father, who received him (figuratively- Heb 11:19) back from the dead. The children of God come from him (Rom 9:7; Heb 3:5b). It is worth reading Isaiah 54 prayerfully in the light of these points.

2. The Jews are never going to be anything remotely like as numerous as the dust of the earth. Abraham's seed is a spiritual one. He is father of those who believe (Gal 3:7).

3. There is only one people of God. (John 10:16; Eph 2:11-15). This is not 'Relacement Theology; it's Inclusion Theology. Believing Jew and believing Gentile all one in Christ Jesus. 'That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body and partakers of His promise in Christ through the Gospel' (Eph 3:6).

The land promised to Abraham is shown to be much bigger than Canaan (Rom 4:13. cf. Psalm 24:1; Matt 5:5).

As I say, I don't want to get into a verbal punch-up over this. I much appreciated your good work against the Hyper-Preterists. I would just urge you to think over what I've written.

Steve

Not sure where to start I Guess Romans 9:7-9, through Isaac would come the chosen, physically born people, but also through that line would be born the Saviour who would draw all men to Him. We are heirs of His Messianic Kingdom as Spiritually adopted children. The church does not replace the Jews as God's chosen Nation (people) instead we, Jew and Gentile alike make up a new people born into the Spiritual Family of God with our nation as Heaven, for we are Ambassadors of Christ, of His Spiritual family and Kingdom. That fact changes nothing about Him coming to rule and reign on this earth in a Physical Messianic Kingdom, that is the real sticking Point. Is Christ sitting on a Throne in Heaven with a spiritual Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven today and yes He is, but will He return to earth physically literally you bet He will.

Rom 2:28-29 We are set apart to God as Spritual Children inwardly the spirtual seperated people of God in the time in which we live.

Phil 3:3 For we the circumcision from strongs "separated from the unclean multitude and truly consecrated to God" for the word circumcission, and as the seperated (HOLY) ones we worship Him in Spirit as the Holy Spirit works with our Human Spirit to show we are the Children of God. Romans 8: 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

As such we are heirs of God and Joint Heirs with Christ in inheritence of Life eternal and all things associated with Christ. We are Glorified togther in Chrsit as the Bride, the Chruch of God.

You put Gatians 3:7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

We are blessed with Abraham for the same reason he was blessed, "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for Righteousness" Our faith is counted for that same righteousness, God sees Christ Righteouesness when He sees us, Christ Righteousness was imputed or placed in our account when we believed on Him, just as it was imputed to Abraham for His belief in Him. The verses following verse 7 qualify what Paul was saying.

 

[revmwc]

I am always reluctant to get into debates over eschatology with anyone who believes in the physical return of Christ, because we are in agreement about the one thing that really matters :1_grouphug: The rest is going to happen the way God has planned it and he hasn't asked my advice on the matter, nor yours. However, I'd like to make a couple of friendly observations.

1. You are referencing Gen 21:12 concerning Isaac. It is worth considering Rom 9:7-8 to explain this. After quoting the Genesis verse, Paul continues, 'That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of promise are counted as the seed.' (cf. also Rom 2:28-29; Phil 3:3). Consider Isaac for a moment. He is not Christ, but he is a type or foreshadowing of Christ: long promised, born miraculously, persecuted by his own kin (Ishmael), offered up by his father, who received him (figuratively- Heb 11:19) back from the dead. The children of God come from him (Rom 9:7; Heb 3:5b). It is worth reading Isaiah 54 prayerfully in the light of these points.

2. The Jews are never going to be anything remotely like as numerous as the dust of the earth. Abraham's seed is a spiritual one. He is father of those who believe (Gal 3:7).

3. There is only one people of God. (John 10:16; Eph 2:11-15). This is not 'Relacement Theology; it's Inclusion Theology. Believing Jew and believing Gentile all one in Christ Jesus. 'That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body and partakers of His promise in Christ through the Gospel' (Eph 3:6).

The land promised to Abraham is shown to be much bigger than Canaan (Rom 4:13. cf. Psalm 24:1; Matt 5:5).

As I say, I don't want to get into a verbal punch-up over this. I much appreciated your good work against the Hyper-Preterists. I would just urge you to think over what I've written.

Steve

John 10:16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

God's plan was never just for the Jews to be saved, the temple had a gentile court, for those Gentiles who placed their faith in the Saviour to come, Simon of Cyrene would have been an example of that, the Roman Centurian had faith. We are His sheep and He is our shepherd just as He is the Shepherd of all who believe.

Eph 2:11-15 you placed in the post:
We are now children made near to God as part of the Bride of Christ, Israel is not the Bride, they are a set apart nation, but the Bride, the Chruch is made up of ALL who believe, and we as the Bride will be with the Bridegroom someday. The wall of partion was broken where we as the Breide, the Church made up of all people are able to go to God as our own representative no longer needing to follow the Law as laid out for the Jewish nation.

Ephesians 3:6
5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Again we are one in Christ, because the church was not revealed in past generations, we are fellowheirs of salvation in Christ as God had planned by God's gift of Grace. We are of the same body, the Body of Christ the Church or the Bride whichever term you like. All because of faith, the Jews were to take to the world the gospel of the Saviour coming but they failed and God gave the Church the task of spreading the Gospel to Jew and Gentile alike, making us fellow hiers of God's Kingdom and we will rule with Christ in His messianic Kingdom on earth.

Hopefully this answers some of what you were asking along with the other verses.

One thing that comes to mind we see, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. We see The Kingdom of God, The Kingdom of Heaven and The Millenial Kingdom mentioned in scripture. Is it a coincedence that the Kingdom is seen as a trinity just as God is seen as a trinity?

 

[JesusFan]

Not sure where to start I Guess Romans 9:7-9, through Isaac would come the chosen, physically born people, but also through that line would be born the Saviour who would draw all men to Him. We are heirs of His Messianic Kingdom as Spiritually adopted children. The church does not replace the Jews as God's chosen Nation (people) instead we, Jew and Gentile alike make up a new people born into the Spiritual Family of God with our nation as Heaven, for we are Ambassadors of Christ, of His Spiritual family and Kingdom. That fact changes nothing about Him coming to rule and reign on this earth in a Physical Messianic Kingdom, that is the real sticking Point. Is Christ sitting on a Throne in Heaven with a spiritual Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven today and yes He is, but will He return to earth physically literally you bet He will.

Rom 2:28-29 We are set apart to God as Spritual Children inwardly the spirtual seperated people of God in the time in which we live.

Phil 3:3 For we the circumcision from strongs "separated from the unclean multitude and truly consecrated to God" for the word circumcission, and as the seperated (HOLY) ones we worship Him in Spirit as the Holy Spirit works with our Human Spirit to show we are the Children of God. Romans 8: 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

As such we are heirs of God and Joint Heirs with Christ in inheritence of Life eternal and all things associated with Christ. We are Glorified togther in Chrsit as the Bride, the Chruch of God.

You put Gatians 3:7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

We are blessed with Abraham for the same reason he was blessed, "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for Righteousness" Our faith is counted for that same righteousness, God sees Christ Righteouesness when He sees us, Christ Righteousness was imputed or placed in our account when we believed on Him, just as it was imputed to Abraham for His belief in Him. The verses following verse 7 qualify what Paul was saying.

exactly!
The others "miss" that in Plan of God, still are 2 distinct Bodies present, a peoples with "heavenly calling" Church, those with "earthly calling" Isreal...

isreal as a nation/peoples will get ALL of their physical promises during Millinium rule of messiah Jesus upon earth, Church receive all spritual promises in heaven at that time...

After Millinium reign, the "new Jerusalem" comes down from the Heavenly realm to earth, new heavens and earth, and God will then be in All, as per Apostles John and Paul!

 

[revmwc]

You make a distinction between the two where the scriptures plainly say God does not:

8 And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15

The Church was FIRST made up ENTIRELY of Jews. When the natural branches are grafted back in, it will be into the Church. And what a glorious day that would be if there were a general incoming of the Jews back to the Church.



That promise was literally fulfilled:

In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Gen 15:18
And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought tribute, and served Solomon all the days of his life. 1 Ki 4:21

As were all others that God had made to Israel:

There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21:45

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

16 Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise. Gal 3



You contradict yourself here. You said, “We are Christ Spiritual Children the Jews are Gods chosen people.” You've just said the Jews are God's elect race.

The NT says that the Church is God's elect race, and that within the Church 'there can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus'.



Are you're saying that these OT prophecies ought not to be taken literally?:

1 For Jehovah will have compassion on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the sojourner shall join himself with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2 And the peoples shall take them, and bring them to their place; and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of Jehovah for servants and for handmaids: and they shall take them captive whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. Isa 14

22 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I will lift up my hand to the nations, and set up my ensign to the peoples; and they shall bring thy sons in their bosom, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their faces to the earth, and lick the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am Jehovah; and they that wait for me shall not be put to shame. Isa 49

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and foreigners shall be your plowmen and your vine-dressers.
6 But ye shall be named the priests of Jehovah; men shall call you the ministers of our God: ye shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7 Instead of your shame ye shall have double; and instead of dishonor they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess double; everlasting joy shall be unto them. Isa 61

I was under the assumption that the dispensationalist took all OT prophecies literally.



How you derive a return to the weak and beggarly elements of the law, being a shadow of the good things to come, from that passage is beyond me. The atonement of Christ nulified the Old Covenant sacrifices forever. Why do the Dispensationalists insist that there's going to be a return to bondage to that covenant that God has said that He NEVER took any pleasure in, or that had any redemptive value to begin with? This view is Judiaizing and again contradicts scripture:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

The distinction is very clear in Scripture as far as the physical seed of Abraham, they are a set apart people, the people of God. We the church are God’s spiritual people made of Jew and Gentile in a different age.
Christ will return and stand for a symbol of the people and the Gentiles will seek Him. He brings rest and Israel is gathered from the 4 corners of the earth.
Isaiah 11: 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

 

[revmwc]

continued:

Zechariah 2:1I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.
3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Looks as if Zechariah says Christ will be reigning in Jerusalem again. They will reign in unwalled cities which is what we see there today.
6Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.
7Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
8For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
9For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
10Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
11And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
12And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
13Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.
The Land will be divided amoung the Tribes as Judah will receive his portion in the Holy Land and shall choose Jerusalem.
Ezekial 47: 13Thus saith the Lord GOD; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.
14And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.
15And this shall be the border of the land toward the north side, from the great sea, the way of Hethlon, as men go to Zedad;
16Hamath, Berothah, Sibraim, which is between the border of Damascus and the border of Hamath; Hazarhatticon, which is by the coast of Hauran.
17And the border from the sea shall be Hazarenan, the border of Damascus, and the north northward, and the border of Hamath. And this is the north side.
18And the east side ye shall measure from Hauran, and from Damascus, and from Gilead, and from the land of Israel by Jordan, from the border unto the east sea. And this is the east side.
19And the south side southward, from Tamar even to the waters of strife in Kadesh, the river to the great sea. And this is the south side southward.
20The west side also shall be the great sea from the border, till a man come over against Hamath. This is the west side.
21So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.
22And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
23And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.
Appears the gentiles (strangers) will have a portion of the land devided to tham as well as the land devided amoung the tribes. Didvided as never before anf each tribe possessing it’s portion as that did not when they entered the land under Josuha.

No contradiction the church is all those things made up of all peoples. The Messianic Kingdom however is the time of Israel as a nation with Christ ruling the whole world. The bride at His side. Within this age of the church we all are part of the Body of Christ part of the Bride if we have accepted Christ it is a Spiritual Family, made of all those Spiritually alive and having the Holy Spirit Indwelling them.
1 Peter 2: 9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
We are a nation a people of God in Spiritual relationship to Him, the Jews are a called out people whom He chose to be the race in which the saviour would come out of and bless all nations. The Promise went further the Messiah would be a King who owould reign over Israel and the world from Jerusalem. With the fulness of the Davidic Kingdom as promised, He would rule bodily as King.

 

[revmwc]

continued

1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
It says in Revelation that the rulers will come and pay homage to Jesus Revelation 4: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These would be from the Tribulation and the Church ruling with Him, the other nations serve them and Christ during the Messianic Kingdom. As you so graciously point out that there is a Kingdom coming for the Jews to possess the land and the nations of the world serve under the Saviour Jesus.

Appears there will be sacrifices offered during that time.
Ezekial 46: 4And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
5And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
6And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
7And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
8And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of that gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof.
9But when the people of the land shall come before the LORD in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it.
10And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.
11And in the feasts and in the solemnities the meat offering shall be an ephah to a bullock, and an ephah to a ram, and to the lambs as he is able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
12Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, one shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth one shall shut the gate.
13Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning.
14And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the LORD.
15Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every morning for a continual burnt offering.

Appears there will be sacrifices offered upon their return.