What Does Revelation 18:21-24 Teach Us about Acceptable Instrumental Music?

[Scripture More Accurately]

Revelation 18:22 is the final reference in Scripture that speaks about instrumental music:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music? What is the right way to determine what it teaches about that subject?

 

[Aaron]

What is the right way to determine what it teaches about that subject?

Reading it without an agenda.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Reading it without an agenda.

Good. I look forward to seeing just what doing so comprises.

 

[David Lamb]

Revelation 18:22 is the final reference in Scripture that speaks about instrumental music:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music? What is the right way to determine what it teaches about that subject?

The context is very specific:

“21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 “The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore.” (Re 18:21-22 NKJV)

So it was a judgment against Babylon.

Thew other thing that struck me from your post is that you did not mention the purpose of the instrumental music. Did you mean "acceptable for use in Christian worship," or "acceptable for people in general to perform or listen to, or maybe something else?

 

[atpollard]

Revelation 18:
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music baked goods and marriage?

Clearly John is secretly communicating to the CHURCH that we are to abstain from all BAKED GOODS [anything made from "flour" is EVIL] and we are to already be like the ANGELS [abandoning the worldly practice of "marriage"]. What else could it possibly mean!

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The context is very specific:

“21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 “The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore.” (Re 18:21-22 NKJV)

So it was a judgment against Babylon.

Thew other thing that struck me from your post is that you did not mention the purpose of the instrumental music. Did you mean "acceptable for use in Christian worship," or "acceptable for people in general to perform or listen to, or maybe something else?

Yes, it was a judgment against Babylon. I intentionally left the nature of the acceptability unspecified.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Revelation 18:
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

What does this passage teach us about acceptable instrumental music baked goods and marriage?

Clearly John is secretly communicating to the CHURCH that we are to abstain from all BAKED GOODS [anything made from "flour" is EVIL] and we are to already be like the ANGELS [abandoning the worldly practice of "marriage"]. What else could it possibly mean!

Hmm. So, your approach is to insist that everything in the list that will be brought to a permanent end has to be of the same character--all have to be good things or all have to be bad things. Is that a correct understanding of your view?

 

[Aaron]

The occasions of the 'voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters' are what's in view, not the machines themselves.

There will be no more occasion of celebration or revelry or triumph. A miserable existence indeed.

 

[atpollard]

Hmm. So, your approach is to insist that everything in the list that will be brought to a permanent end has to be of the same character--all have to be good things or all have to be bad things. Is that a correct understanding of your view?

Not really ...

My "personal view" is that "Revelation" is apocryphal literature, and as such it employed vivid symbolism familiar to its immediate recipients to convey spiritual truths rather than simple historic predictions. In the case of Revelation, there is a God-breathed "double entente" of a message for those undergoing first century persecution to offer encouragement and hope that as terrible as things are (then), God is still in charge, the suffering will not last forever, and God and his Church will prevail over the powers of darkness. This would be of minimal value to us (like the census of Israel or lists of genealogies) but for the reality that EVERYONE in EVERY AGE goes through trouble and hard times. Therefore, the underlying SPIRITUAL TRUTHS are of vital importance and deep encouragement to Christians suffering every WHERE and WHEN.

The secret is to get our head out of our **** and stop trying to create timelines of future events that we have been told NOBODY (including Jesus and the Angels) know. THAT is not the "mystery" to be unraveled. Trusting in God when everything in life seems to indicate that the cause is hopeless: that is the lesson.

So when people seek to misuse Revelation to discuss "setting up kingdoms" or "rebuilding temples" or "ruling with Christ" or just building a YOKE of legalism about "good music and bad music" ... the appropriate response is sarcasm and "reducto ad absurdum".

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Not really ...

My "personal view" is that "Revelation" is apocryphal literature, and as such it employed vivid symbolism familiar to its immediate recipients to convey spiritual truths rather than simple historic predictions. In the case of Revelation, there is a God-breathed "double entente" of a message for those undergoing first century persecution to offer encouragement and hope that as terrible as things are (then), God is still in charge, the suffering will not last forever, and God and his Church will prevail over the powers of darkness. This would be of minimal value to us (like the census of Israel or lists of genealogies) but for the reality that EVERYONE in EVERY AGE goes through trouble and hard times. Therefore, the underlying SPIRITUAL TRUTHS are of vital importance and deep encouragement to Christians suffering every WHERE and WHEN.

The secret is to get our head out of our **** and stop trying to create timelines of future events that we have been told NOBODY (including Jesus and the Angels) know. THAT is not the "mystery" to be unraveled. Trusting in God when everything in life seems to indicate that the cause is hopeless: that is the lesson.

So when people seek to misuse Revelation to discuss "setting up kingdoms" or "rebuilding temples" or "ruling with Christ" or just building a YOKE of legalism about "good music and bad music" ... the appropriate response is sarcasm and "reducto ad absurdum".

We have very different understandings of the book of Revelation. Trying to discuss anything with you about what the book says would be pointless because you impose an extrabiblical understanding on the book that is entirely unsupported by anything in Scripture itself.

 

[atpollard]

Stupid auto-correct …

My "personal view" is that "Revelation" is apocryphal literature,

“apocalyptic” not “apocryphal”.