Weather you believe in eternal security or not is not this OP's point....rather what would you do if you knew "Hypothetically" you could NEVER loose it? How would that effect your life?
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What if you did believe you could not loose salvation?
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
- Start date
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Take a good look at a large portion of the church today and the low ebb of true obedience to God's laws, and you should have your first clues.
So you would sin it up? Is that what YOU would do?
Good question!
As a matter of fact I do know I cannot lose my salvation.
What would I do? The same thing I have been doing since the Lord called me to His Word.
I praise His Holy Name!!
I love Him and keep His sayings.
When I transgress, I confess and tell Him I'm sorry.
I pray without ceasing.
I seek the works that he has ordained for me to walk in.
I preach the gospel whenever I can.
I cry ABBA Father!!
I long for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.
You see, threats do not produce love.
Grace and mercy does!
God does not want His children to exercise love by threatening them with hell fire.
True love obeys Him because of His grace and love, not out of a fear of hell.
If anyone is obeying God's word because of any fear of losing salvation then they do not understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
The sad thing is that most do not even have a Scriptural concept of what sin entails, and even if they do they have a secret agreement among themselves that it does not have any true affect on them. (like, I have already been forgiven before I sin. I believe we have all heard that plenty on this list even. Does 'past, present, and future, ring any bells or blow any whistles?)
The OP is not about judging OTHERS.
Judge yourself, what would you do HP if you knew there was no way you could lose your salvation? Would you sneek a little sin here and there?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: That is indeed a hypothetical question that has no answer other than to say such is not only hypothetical, but simply impossible for I cannot believe that for a minute. It is not according to the Word of God.
Of course it's hypothetical from your pov.
Does answering it cause you to take pause?
Are you afraid that you would sin it up if you allowed yourself to believe in OSAS?
I believe in OSAS as does many on this board and I have no desire to sin it up.
OSAS doesn't change a thing for me. I obey because I love Him. I have no fear of losing anything I am promised by God.
What he said!
I don't believe that I could possibly loose my salvation, and it doesn't change a thing!
I was thinking (no jokes please)
What if the question was reversed?
What if you believed you COULD lose your salvation?
Now this is a hypothetical for me since I know that I cannot lose my salvation. So what then would I think?
The very first thought that came into my mind was no assurance. My relationship with Christ has just become a religion of hope so. My religion has just become as any other religion, into the unknown.
It's a depressing thought to have. I am so glad that I do know whom I have believed in and am persuaded that He is able to keep me secure in Him unto that day.
How sad to not know with absolute 100% assurance that if you die today you would be with Christ.
It is a scary hypothetical to consider.
What if the question was reversed?
What if you believed you COULD lose your salvation?
Now this is a hypothetical for me since I know that I cannot lose my salvation. So what then would I think?
The very first thought that came into my mind was no assurance. My relationship with Christ has just become a religion of hope so. My religion has just become as any other religion, into the unknown.
It's a depressing thought to have. I am so glad that I do know whom I have believed in and am persuaded that He is able to keep me secure in Him unto that day.
How sad to not know with absolute 100% assurance that if you die today you would be with Christ.
It is a scary hypothetical to consider.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I would be in shock to find out that the Bible was not true - when all this time I thought it was true.
I would be in shock to learn that I had no free will as a saint.
I would be in shock that God would allow Lucifer and Adam to fall - resulting in such pain for all of us - when all He had to do is "make them like me" so they could not choose to fall.
I would be glad of course to get out of the sinful world - no matter how second-rate the solution because after all - who wants to burn in the lake of fire. But given that God had such a wonderful solution given in the bible - and chose not to use the very solution His Word outlined for us - would still be 'shocking'.
Of course it depends on WHICH FLAVOR of OSAS I had accepted. IF I had accepted the one that DOES also believe in Perseverance of the saints" such that IF 10 years from today I failed to persevere THEN all of my "OSAS assurance" is "retro-deleted" - I would live in fear and uncertainty that I might not actually be saved.
BUT IF I was OSAS - saved in the model that dumps the Bible doctrine of perservance of the saints out the window - so that it matters not a whit if I persevere 10 years from today -- THEN I would breath a sigh of relief - have a great sense of ASSURANCE but still be a bit shocked that the Bible turned out to be wrong and that we were forced to go through 6,000 years of sin and suffering for nothing.
in Christ,
Bob
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It's a hypothetical question for you Bob. It has nothing to do with your view of the scriptures for this is not a OSAS scripture debate.
Would you live your life any differently as a Christian?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I would think - wow so Matt 18 is true after all!!
Wow -- so the warning in Romans 11 is true after all!!
Wow - so Gal 5:4 is true after all! Ok well that is good to know.
Wow - that sure explains out it could be that Lucifer was allowed to fall
hmm - so this means my "assurance of salvation" is exactly what Romans 8:15-16 said it was - based on "The Spirit that bears witness with my Spirit" that I AM the Child of God.
Not a magic mantra that I said decades ago.
It also means that the assurance of salvation that I have today "is real" and even if some day 10 years from today I were to "fail to persevere" -- still the salvation new-birth born-again in-Christ experience I have today is REAL.
in Christ,
Bob
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It's not a OSAS scripture debate Bob. This thread is about a hypothetical for non-osas believers to answer. Care to answer?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I think both sides agree that a saved saint - is "born again" - the new creation no matter what they think of OSAS.
Paul says in Gal 2:20 "it is no longer I who live - but Christ that lives in me"
The temptation in a "you cannot fail" model (aside from problems with the Bible) is that I would feel tempted to toss out all the warnings in scripture about falling "buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" - would be pretty much meaningless and I certainly would not be recommending it to others, because we would have no context at all for how that might even apply.
I would "not mention" the warning in Gal 5:4 or Matt 18, or John 15 or 1Cor 9 or Eph 6 etc - just the same as our OSAS friends here - never bring up those texts except to find a way to squirm around them.
However - a saved saint (OSAS or not) is always happy to be "a saved saint".
If I could "pick" the OSAS model - and since we don't care how wrong the Bible is to get there - then I would pick the OSAS version that throws Perseverance out the window - so that I could have max assurance of salvation - and no "retro-deleting assurance" problem like the 3 and 5 point Calvinists have.
in Christ,
Bob
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I gotta tell you, if I didn't believe osas is true, I for one would not feel so "happy". Towing the line into an unknown does not sound like any fun to me.
No, I wouldn't throw perserverance out, that is one of the most beautiful promisses given to me! Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
If you are sitting in God's chair and can peer into your own soul like you are God and know the future - knowing you are really saved and will never fail to persevere (you did not mention the option of BEING God in your list) THEN I would certainly choose that one AND then I would choose to keep the Bible doctrine on Perseverance since then in that "I am God" case - I would not have any risk -- and in that case, no need at all for the pesky perseverance text as it turns out.
Perseverance warning texts cannot motivate me if I know I can never fail to persevere no matter what.
It would be like saying "be sure to be human your whole life" - and "I am warning you -- if you fail to continue being human some year in the future - then you might be a cat one day".
I actually don't give those nonsensical impossible to ever happen in all of time kinds of warnings a second thought - no need for them.
But a warning that is of the form "don't drive on too little sleep -- driving on too little sleep leads to death" I do take seriously because the risk is "real" not simply "turn-into-a-cat" fiction.
in Christ,
Bob
Perseverance warning texts cannot motivate me if I know I can never fail to persevere no matter what.
It would be like saying "be sure to be human your whole life" - and "I am warning you -- if you fail to continue being human some year in the future - then you might be a cat one day".
I actually don't give those nonsensical impossible to ever happen in all of time kinds of warnings a second thought - no need for them.
But a warning that is of the form "don't drive on too little sleep -- driving on too little sleep leads to death" I do take seriously because the risk is "real" not simply "turn-into-a-cat" fiction.
in Christ,
Bob
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They motivate me to love Him more and more!
Hang in there Bob! I know you will make it :thumbs: