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What in the "World" does that word mean?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a sense from the anti-calvinist position that the Calvinists are wrong simply because the New Testament uses the word "World" often. I want to look at the book of John alone and propose quite a few different meanings of the word world. This is based on context. In short, the "word" world does not always mean "every individual person."

    The word "World" can mean:

    1. The entire universe or created order such as John 1:10
    2. The physical earth. John 13:1
    3. The world system. John 12:31
    4. All unbelievers. John 7:7
    5. A large group. John 12:19
    6. The general public. John 7:4
    7. Large groups both Jew and Gentile. John 1:29
    8. The non-elect. John 17:9
    9. The elect. John 3:17
     
    #1 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
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  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    If the World is the elect in John 3:17 it would be the same in v16.
    I don't think you can prove "The world" is the elect in either verse. Assume the world is the elect; back to the foreknowledge argument.
    If Calvinism, Arminianism, or any blended theory of the two could be proven, we would not have these discussions. Theologians have never, nor will they ever agree on it.
     
    #2 Reynolds, Apr 8, 2019
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Actually the word world is used in multiple senses in verse 17 alone. So are you saying that everyone is saved? Because if one of those worlds in verse 17 doesn't mean the elect you make everyone the elect or a meaning other than people in general.
     
    #3 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
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  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    It is just used in one sense; humanity.
     
    #4 Reynolds, Apr 8, 2019
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    So the verse reads this way?

    For God did not send his son into humanity to condemn humanity but that humanity might be saved through him.

    I don't think so. Especially since the manuscript uses two different forms of Kosmos in that verse.
     
    #5 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
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  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Really? Thayer lists all 3 as the same and lists humanity as one of the possible meanings.
    It's κόσμος, right?
     
    #6 Reynolds, Apr 8, 2019
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    The last world is κόσμος in the nominative the other two are κόσμον in the accusative.
     
    #7 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I also couldn't find the usage you are referring to in Thayer.
     
    #8 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    "5.the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family"
     
    #9 Reynolds, Apr 8, 2019
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    We have some different sources. What I have in front of me says all 3 are κόσμος.
     
    #10 Reynolds, Apr 8, 2019
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I meant for the reference, not word meaning.

    Interesting, what Greek text are you using? I am looking at NA28.
     
    #11 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I have even checked SBL and TR. All say the same thing. Both κόσμον as well as κόσμος
     
    #12 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    #13 Reynolds, Apr 8, 2019
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, you aren't actually looking at the Greek text then...

    17 οὐ γὰρ ἀπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν υἱὸν ⸆ εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἵνα κρίνῃ τὸν κόσμον, ἀλλʼ ἵνα p 300 σωθῇ ὁ κόσμος διʼ αὐτοῦ.

    The G numbers only give you the lexical value not the actual word form.
     
    #14 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    @Reynolds all that being said, it doesn't change the fact that context dictates the sense in which a word is used.
     
    #15 Reformed1689, Apr 8, 2019
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  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I looked it up in my interlinnear when I got home. You are correct on two different words. What meanings do you assign each of the three usages? Humanity is a possible definition for all 3 usages and contextually, it fits best.
     
    #16 Reynolds, Apr 8, 2019
  17. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    That is a better argument. The subject vs. direct object argument of κόσμος vs. κόσμον you used earlier was not a good one. Κόσμον belongs to the subject and verb combo, ἀπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς.

    That same Κόσμος then becomes the subject of the next thought. The form does not demand a difference meaning here. "The world" is refering to the same group/thing in all 3 instances.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    #17 McCree79, Apr 8, 2019
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  18. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    The BDAG believes the usage is "of all humanity, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love"

    I would agree, as it seems 16-18 as a whole would support this conclusion.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    #18 McCree79, Apr 8, 2019
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  19. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Not sure how a how I feel about some of these.

    Mostly due to your sentence, "The word "World" can mean:"

    Κόσμος never means elect or non-elect. It can REFER to the elect or non-elect. I assume you give #9 as an example because the κόσμον not condemned is refering to the ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν (the one who believes in Him), who are not condemned in verse 18.

    Κόσμος may be refering to the elect, but I would not say the word MEANS elect. I know I am splitting hairs, but I think it might cause confusion and unnecessary objections to you claim.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    #19 McCree79, Apr 8, 2019
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  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is what I am saying. And yes, splitting hairs, but in this case (and given some of the arguments on this board) it was a good hair to split.
     
    #20 Reformed1689, Apr 9, 2019
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