What is Hyper-Arminianism?

[preacher4truth]

This is the opposite end of the spectrum from Bobinkys’ “What is Hyper-Calvinism?” post.

This is the extreme of Arminianism that goes to the logical end resulting in humanism and other error.

Hyper-Arminianism leads to Word-Faith theology.

Hyper-Arminianism leads to Copeland theological error, that God is a helpless being, who has failed, and depends upon man to “let him in.”

Hyper-Arminianism leads to limiting God, stripping Him of Omniscience.

The above are two theologies, one in the same, yet on the more extreme (Copeland) that have led to these well- known sects within Christianity.

Hyper-Arminianism leads to semi-pelagianism, and to pelagianism.

Hyper-Arminianism leads to humanistic theology.

Which well-known sects within Christianity has hyper-calvinism led to?

http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/hyper-arminianism-can-lead-to-humanism/

http://lehislibrary.wordpress.com/2...ius-mormonism-as-a-form-of-hyper-arminianism/

http://lehislibrary.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/mark-hausam-calvinism-arminianism-mormonism.pdf

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/explainorexplainaway.html

http://watchinghidtory.blogspot.com/2008/09/hyper-arminianism.html

http://stumblingtobethlehem.blogspot.com/2011/05/hyper-arminian.html (nice little article)

 

[Winman]

Thank you for the links, I agree that Hyper-Arminianism is error and has led to many false cults.

Which well-known sects within Christianity has hyper-calvinism led to?

Well, I wouldn't necessarily say hyper-Calvinism has led to false sects, but I do believe it has led to false doctrine such as Replacement and Covenant Theology. I also notice that nearly all Preterists are Calvinists.

Universalism is actually a combination of the extremes of both Calvinism and Arminianism. It holds that God is sovereign and His will will always be done (from Calvinism) combined with the fact that God wills all men be saved (from Arminianism) and therefore concludes God will save all men.

The truth is in the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism.

 

[preacher4truth]

Thank you for the links, I agree that Hyper-Arminianism is error and has led to many false cults.



Well, I wouldn't necessarily say hyper-Calvinism has led to false sects, but I do believe it has led to false doctrine such as Replacement and Covenant Theology. I also notice that nearly all Preterists are Calvinists.

Universalism is actually a combination of the extremes of both Calvinism and Arminianism. It holds that God is sovereign and His will will always be done (from Calvinism) combined with the fact that God wills all men be saved (from Arminianism) and therefore concludes God will save all men.

The truth is in the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism.

I want you to know my friend that I totally reject preterism. He came physically and seen the first time, He is coming the same way the second. Like He said.

 

[Winman]

I want you to know my friend that I totally reject preterism. He came physically and seen the first time, He is coming the same way the second. Like He said.

Oh, I believe you, I had seen you say that in another thread. I am in no way saying all Calvinists are Preterists, I would think a very minute number are. And I am sure a minute number of Arminians are Preterists, although I've never run into one. But I'm sure they're out there.

But I agree that Hyper-Arminianism is error, years ago I worked with a fellow who was Pentacostal and believed you had to get saved over and over again. He thought every time he sinned he might be out from "under the umbrella of God's grace" and had to repent and be saved again. I agree with confessing sin whenever we commit it, but I do not believe a Christian can lose his salvation. So, although I believe in free will, I am not an Armianian.

 

[preacher4truth]

Oh, I believe you, I had seen you say that in another thread. I am in no way saying all Calvinists are Preterists, I would think a very minute number are. And I am sure a minute number of Arminians are Preterists, although I've never run into one. But I'm sure they're out there.

But I agree that Hyper-Arminianism is error, years ago I worked with a fellow who was Pentacostal and believed you had to get saved over and over again. He thought every time he sinned he might be out from "under the umbrella of God's grace" and had to repent and be saved again. I agree with confessing sin whenever we commit it, but I do not believe a Christian can lose his salvation. So, although I believe in free will, I am not an Armianian.

What sect has hyper-calvinism led to?

Let's say hyper-calvinism = God does all, to Him all Glory. How can this be wrong?

Let's say hyper-arminianism = God plus the effort of man = a share of His glory.

These are accurate descriptions of both, though brief.

I see only one leading to the ultimately wrong path and conclusion.

So, again, what specific sect has hyper-calvinism led to? I'm interested to know.

 

[Winman]

What sect has hyper-calvinism led to?

Let's say hyper-calvinism = God does all, to Him all Glory. How can this be wrong?

Let's say hyper-arminianism = God plus the effort of man = a share of His glory.

These are accurate descriptions of both, though brief.

I see only one leading to the ultimately wrong path and conclusion.

So, again, what specific sect has hyper-calvinism led to? I'm interested to know.

I see it this way;

God is sovereign ----> Man submits to God and trusts Christ.

Paul said we have "obeyed" the gospel. He called the unregenerate "the children of disobedience". Man cannot save himself, though most men try to save themselves through their own good works. To be saved you must submit or obey God and trust in his Son Jesus. If you do not submit to God, he will not save you. This is not a work, it is a ceasing of trying to save yourself and trusting or relying only on Jesus to save you.

It is like jumping out of an airplane and trusting the parachute to get you down safely. You sure can't get down by flapping your arms and flying like a bird, and the parachute doesn't need your help either. You just jump and trust the parachute to do all the work to get you down safely.

 

[BobinKy]

What sect has hyper-calvinism led to?

Let's say hyper-calvinism = God does all, to Him all Glory. How can this be wrong?

Let's say hyper-arminianism = God plus the effort of man = a share of His glory.

These are accurate descriptions of both, though brief.

I see only one leading to the ultimately wrong path and conclusion.

So, again, what specific sect has hyper-calvinism led to? I'm interested to know.

P4T...

Do you consider yourself to be a hyper-Calvinist?

...Bob

 

[preacher4truth]

I see it this way;

God is sovereign ----> Man submits to God and trusts Christ.

Paul said we have "obeyed" the gospel. He called the unregenerate "the children of disobedience". Man cannot save himself, though most men try to save themselves through their own good works. To be saved you must submit or obey God and trust in his Son Jesus. If you do not submit to God, he will not save you. This is not a work, it is a ceasing of trying to save yourself and trusting or relying only on Jesus to save you.

It is like jumping out of an airplane and trusting the parachute to get you down safely. You sure can't get down by flapping your arms and flying like a bird, and the parachute doesn't need your help either. You just jump and trust the parachute to do all the work to get you down safely.

Those are great stories and illustrations. But they don't address our matter.

Seriously, what is the answer to my post?

What sect has hyper-calvinism created, as hyper-arminianism has?

 

[BobinKy]

I see it this way;

God is sovereign ----> Man submits to God and trusts Christ.

Paul said we have "obeyed" the gospel. He called the unregenerate "the children of disobedience". Man cannot save himself, though most men try to save themselves through their own good works. To be saved you must submit or obey God and trust in his Son Jesus. If you do not submit to God, he will not save you. This is not a work, it is a ceasing of trying to save yourself and trusting or relying only on Jesus to save you.

It is like jumping out of an airplane and trusting the parachute to get you down safely. You sure can't get down by flapping your arms and flying like a bird, and the parachute doesn't need your help either. You just jump and trust the parachute to do all the work to get you down safely.

Winman...

I agree with your post. You said it well and to the point. :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:


...Bob

 

[preacher4truth]

P4T...

Do you consider yourself to be a hyper-Calvinist?

...Bob

Not at all Bob. I don't even consider myself a Calvinist.

Do you consider yourself a hyper-arminian?

...Me

 

[Skandelon]

What sect has hyper-calvinism led to?

Let's say hyper-calvinism = God does all, to Him all Glory. How can this be wrong?

Hyper-Calvinism has many dangerous tendencies. I think Allan covered this topic the best I've seen HERE>>>

 

[preacher4truth]

Likewise hyper-arminianism, especially since it is tangibly seen in sects.

Hyper-cal is more a "phantom fear," unsubstantiated other than in "fears of what it could lead to" but I am trying to tie it to a specific sect, like "word_faith." That plus it is over-used as a label. Real tangible sects have arisen from hyper-arminianism. I can't name any from hyper-cal.

The ultimate end of hyper-cal is All God.

The ultimate end of hyper-arm is Mans effort exalted.

I can seriously empathize with the former and not the latter.

 

[Winman]

I am not a church historian, so I couldn't name "sects" that have originated from Calvinism, but I have seen a few varieties of Calvinism here. An example would be Pinoybaptist who claims to be DoG, but frankly I've never been able to make heads or tails of what he believes. I do know it is very different from what most Cals believe here. I would consider him to be a "sect". So, there is a wide variety of Cals/DoGs that could be considered sects, though I am not knowledgeable of their differences. Perhaps someone like Allan could provide this information as I believe church history is his specialty.

 

[Skandelon]

Likewise hyper-arminianism, especially since it is tangibly seen in sects.

Hyper-cal is more a "phantom fear," unsubstantiated other than in "fears of what it could lead to" but I am trying to tie it to a specific sect, like "word_faith." That plus it is over-used as a label. Real tangible sects have arisen from hyper-arminianism. I can't name any from hyper-cal.

The ultimate end of hyper-cal is All God.

The ultimate end of hyper-arm is Mans effort exalted.

I can seriously empathize with the former and not the latter.

Did you read the link I provided from Allan? I ask because your response doesn't seem to reflect a true understanding of the "hyper-Calvinist's" claims.

Have you heard of such groups as, "Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists," The denomination is commonly known as the Anti-Mission Baptists along with the Duck River and Kindred Baptists, some Primitive Baptists, Old Regular Baptists, some Regular Baptists and some United Baptists. These could all be considered "sects" of Calvinism. Is that what you are looking for?

 

[matt wade]

It is like jumping out of an airplane and trusting the parachute to get you down safely. You sure can't get down by flapping your arms and flying like a bird, and the parachute doesn't need your help either. You just jump and trust the parachute to do all the work to get you down safely.

You gotta pull the cord!

 

[jbh28]

You gotta pull the cord!

Just make sure you tell them that before they jump! :laugh:

 

[Winman]

You gotta pull the cord!

Yes, no analogy is perfect. And modern parachutes can be flown to a degree. But the early parachutes your chord was usually pulled when you jumped out, and you simply floated down, fully trusting the parachute.

But you do have to jump, but the jumping itself is evidence of faith, if you have no faith the parachute is safe, you will not jump. So, you have already believed if you jump.

It Is the same with calling on Jesus to save you, you would not call on Jesus if you did not believe in him, the calling is simply evidence of the faith you first had.

This is why Paul asked,

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?" (Rom 10:14)

If you really don't believe in Jesus you will not call, but if you have a mustard seed's worth of faith and call, you have enough faith to be saved.

You may have great fear and doubt before jumping out of the plane, but if you believe enough to jump, that is all that is needed.

 

[BobinKy]

Not at all Bob. I don't even consider myself a Calvinist.

Do you consider yourself a hyper-arminian?

...Me

No, I do not.

Thank you for the reply.


...Bob

 

[Dr. Bob]

I always consider "Hyper-Arminian" (a term I don't recall ever even seeing or using) as more openly semi-pelagian or pelagian, taking the Arminian man-centric false [changed - position] to its logical conclusion. "If it's going to be, it's up to me."

The term "Hyper-Calvinist" is a coined term "boogey-man" that I have never seen in action (and believe me, I hang around with every type of calvinist imagineable). Read a booklet by an avowed Arminian Sword of the Lord type decrying "Hyper Calvinism" and he was so in the dark theologically that he described a simple five-point biblicist as this so-called "boogey-man" to avoid!! Sad commentary that he taught such nonsense.

Still see on the BB some trying to slur other believers by calling them "Hyper-Calvinists" and never saw anyone CLOSE to that position here in our BB family. [Words have meaning: Hyper-Calvinism is a defineable word and you can match post/theology to it . . and never find one here] Have seen many who would tend toward the hyper in the Arminian/semi-pelagian camp.

 

[preacher4truth]

Did you read the link I provided from Allan? I ask because your response doesn't seem to reflect a true understanding of the "hyper-Calvinist's" claims.

Have you heard of such groups as, "Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists," The denomination is commonly known as the Anti-Mission Baptists along with the Duck River and Kindred Baptists, some Primitive Baptists, Old Regular Baptists, some Regular Baptists and some United Baptists. These could all be considered "sects" of Calvinism. Is that what you are looking for?

Yes, read it. I'm sorry you feel I don't understand hyper-cals cals, as I do, and yes, I have heard of the two seed in the spirit.

Not really, looking more for something akin to a more well known group extending from it such as word-faith is to armin.