What is inspired?

[stilllearning]

2 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

I have learned many things here on the BB, and one of them is the almost universal acceptance, that no “translation” of the Bible should be called “inspired”.

I suppose the reason for this belief is because of the fact that since “inspired” means “God’s breathed”(words that have come out of God’s mouth), that people assume that words coming out of God’s mouth loose their inspiration when they are translated into a different language.

The Bible itself refutes this;
All of the apostles and our Lord Himself, quoted from a Greek translation of the Old Testament(LXX), with not one word being said about it being nothing less than God’s inspired Word.
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If being translated into English, meant that a Bible was no longer “God’s inspired Word”, than this translation should not include 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17, because if it is uninspired, than it can’t really make a man perfect.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Only the originals are perfect and "God breathed". All copies and translations have man-made flaws (most quite minor).

A translation DERIVES inspired status as it faithfully and accurately reflects, as best as possible, the message of the original into the receptor language.

This is not difficult with Hebrew, as most languages are far more exact and detailed than Hebrew. On the other hand, this is quite difficult in Greek, since only one language (Latin) is as detailed and complex.

So even if one examines all the 5500 manuscripts and through rigorous evaluation concludes the Greek text that was "original", it will still be weakend and changed by translating it into other languages. English is very impricise as a Germanic language (instead of a Romance language) and challenging.

But translators have done a wonderful job.

BTW, your premise that since Jesus and the Apostles sometimes quoted a translation that this makes ANY translation of ANY verse "inspired", is not valid. They also quoted non-biblical sources, poets, legends, even the words of Satan. These quotations are accurate and incorporated into the sacred text, but it means nothing about any other words in such secular texts.

Most LXX quotations by Jesus are changed and not exactly what the LXX said. This is also true of His quotations of Hebrew OT. Gleason Archer's wonderful book on OT Quotations in the NT is a worth-while study.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Bob

Thank you for your kind response, but........it is simply conjecture.

Your opinion that some languages are less precise or weaker than others, us just that; “an opinion”.

The “fact” still remains that God, in His Word, establishes that “copies of the autographs”, produced “in different languages”, are still God’s inspired Word.

The terrible part of this whole issue, is the way in which God’s people are being convinced, that denying the inspiration of the Bible, is not a damnable heresy.

Believing that if something is accepted by most of the people, then somehow it must be right.

Even though your statement..........

“Only the originals are perfect and "God breathed".”

........is shared by the vast majority of professing Christians, does not make it sound.
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If God’s Word is no longer inspired, than why waste our time studying or memorizing it.

But it is inspired, and it does have “power” to change our lives........
Psalms 119:11
“Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.”

 

[Mexdeaf]

Your opinion that some languages are less precise or weaker than others, us just that; “an opinion”.

No, it is a FACT. I know four different languages- English, Spanish, American Sign Language, and Mexican Sign Language, as well as a smattering of others and I also took Greek many moons ago in college. It is a FACT that some languages are more precise than others- and that is very clearly borne out by looking at the Greek words translated "love" or "charity" that have MUCH MORE precise meanings than the English words.

You can translate from Greek to Spanish in a much more precise manner than you can from Greek to English because both Greek and Spanish are Romance languages.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Your opinion that some languages are less precise or weaker than others, us just that; “an opinion”.

:BangHead:

If you doubt this, I'd encourage even cursory study. I have never found a source that would put Greek or Latin in the same class as English. They are LIGHT YEARS apart and this is not "opinion" but 100% truth.

Now you have the ball in your court.

Study English "cases" of nouns (2) v Greek "cases" (8 of them!)

Study English "gender" (non-existant) or "voice" or "tenses" or "mode".

Try to accuately reflect the aorist or pluperfect or a middle participle or a hundred other areas and then come back and say that English is even remotely akin to Greek.

This is why anyone who studies the original languages scoffs at the schismatic lies of the onlyist who teach God reinspired His Word in English.

 

[Dr. Bob]

You can translate from Greek to Spanish in a much more precise manner than you can from Greek to English because both Greek and Spanish are Romance languages.

Slight correction - Greek is NOT a Romance language (based on Latin). But Greek and Latin (and Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian) are closely akin and easy to precisely translate the Word.

It is sad that some of the only sect want a translation in Spanish from the KJV (inferior English) rather than from the Greek! No translation from English will come close.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Slight correction - Greek is NOT a Romance language (based on Latin). But Greek and Latin (and Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian) are closely akin and easy to precisely translate the Word.

It is sad that some of the only sect want a translation in Spanish from the KJV (inferior English) rather than from the Greek! No translation from English will come close.

Thanks for the correction. When we went to Mexico as missionaries I was amazed at the similarities between Greek and Spanish. My two years of very basic Greek helped prepare me for learning Spanish.

 

[stilllearning]

Upon further reflection, it does appear, that English is of a lower quality, than that of other languages and I was about ready to concede that I am missing something, by only knowing the Bible, in English.

Then in my daily study I came to Acts 1:8..........
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”

and was reminded of........
Acts 2:8-11
V.8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
V.9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
V.10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
V.11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
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Islam sees it’s holy book(the Koran), as inspired and does not allow it to be translated into any other language(for it’s followers), thinking that it’s holy words would lose something in the translation.

But it is clear from the outset, that God(the one true living God), intended for His Word to be translated into every language on Earth(“the wonderful works of God”).

And God, would see to it, that every human being, was going to be able to rightly understand His Word, regardless of their language.
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Which brings me back to my original point.......
“How can any of us say, that a Bible is not inspired, simply because it is translated into another language.”

It’s Inspiration, is what sets the Bible apart from every other book on the planet!

 

[Trotter]

Upon further reflection, it does appear, that English is of a lower quality, than that of other languages and I was about ready to concede that I am missing something, by only knowing the Bible, in English.

Then in my daily study I came to Acts 1:8..........
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”

and was reminded of........
Acts 2:8-11
V.8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
V.9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
V.10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
V.11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
--------------------------------------------------
Islam sees it’s holy book(the Koran), as inspired and does not allow it to be translated into any other language(for it’s followers), thinking that it’s holy words would lose something in the translation.

But it is clear from the outset, that God(the one true living God), intended for His Word to be translated into every language on Earth(“the wonderful works of God”).

And God, would see to it, that every human being, was going to be able to rightly understand His Word, regardless of their language.
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Which brings me back to my original point.......
“How can any of us say, that a Bible is not inspired, simply because it is translated into another language.”

It’s Inspiration, is what sets the Bible apart from every other book on the planet!

Yep, "regardless of language". If we all spoke Jacobean English and still used "thee" and "thou" then the KJV could be that translation for us all... but we don't speak in Jacobean English, and neither did the common people of the day when the KJV was translated. So I guess that the KJV would have never fit that classification.

All bibles carry the inspiration that was given by God because of what they are and what they contain. No bible translation is inspired in and of itself. God did the inspiring through the original authors and not through any translation committee that has ever been on the face of the earth.

 

[robycop3]

Simple fact is, GOD chose hebrew & Koine Greek to preserve His word in, and as for valid translations, none is more "inspired" than another.

Still, I have no doubt that GOD caused translations to be made. And, as the Creator of all languages, He is fully aware that no English translation can be a 100% literal word-for-word translation of the Hebrew and Greek.

I believe "influenced" or "caused" is a better word than "inspired" here.

 

[Winman]

I agree with Stilllearning, an accurate translation of God's word is inspired, else it could not be called scripture. But the scriptures themselves declare the texts the Ethiopian eunuch to be reading "scripture", and almost all scholars agree he was reading a Greek translations of the OT, which would also necessarily be a copy.

Acts 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

I will trust God's word over the opinions of men. If the scriptures themselves show that an accurate translation and a copy of scripture are scripture, that's good enough for me.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Well, that's what you get from not using the inspired Greek text.

Using God's Word and not a translation, go to your "proof" text in Acts 8. Nowhere is the word "Scripture" used. It is simply called a "writing" (graphe and NOT biblion).

"Writing" may certainly be what we think of as the Bible, or any other writing (hence its name) such as Plato or a Prophet (in this case Isaiah) or an apocryphal book.

Lexicons state that "graphe" may be used of some of the Bible's contents or a statement from the Bible.

Those verses used in the text WERE accurate and hence used in the NT; others in the LXX were poorly translated and would not derive inspiration. No man-made translation can begin to equal God's perfect Word.

 

[Winman]

What an absurd argument. Show me anywhere in the NT where the word "scripture" or "scriptures" does not mean God's word.

 

[Trotter]

What an absurd argument. Show me anywhere in the NT where the word "scripture" or "scriptures" does not mean God's word.

Dr.Bob just did. "Using God's Word and not a translation, go to your "proof" text in Acts 8. Nowhere is the word "Scripture" used. It is simply called a "writing" (graphe and NOT biblion)." Graphe is very different from biblion. Any written material is graphe, but only scripture is biblion, just like any atuomobile is a car, but only a Cadillac is a Cadillac.

"No man-made translation can begin to equal God's perfect Word." I am beginning to see the truth of that more and more as I grow older. Should I ever get the chance I want to study Greek so I can better know God's actual word and not just what someone else is telling me it says.

 

[stilllearning]

Matthew 21:42
“Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?”

This word “scriptures”, in this verse, is the same Greek word as used in Acts 8:35 for "scripture".
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Are you saying that Jesus wasn’t quoting from the God’s preserved & inspired Word?

 

[jbh28]

Inspired means God breathed. The Scripture is God breathed. It is the sacred writings(what the term scripture means) that are God breathed. Only the original writers were free from error. Translations are not inspired(in the sense as the English words being God breathed) but a translation of the God breathed words.

 

[Askjo]

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

πασα γραφη θεοπνευστος και ωφελιμος προς διδασκαλιαν προς ελεγχον προς επανορθωσιν προς παιδειαν την εν δικαιοσυνη

Look at a bold word above. It is "graphE" that means to "write down."

Look at a word, "graphE" – Let’s say "graph" by using the suffix, "-graph."

Seismograph is to WRITE DOWN (RECORD) when the earthquake occurs.

Therefore all scripture (graphE -- writings) is given by inspiration of God. This means His breathed Words in the autographs. The inspiration refers to the autographs only.

The translation does not refer to the inspiration, but it refers to the derivation. The KJV is a translation, not the inspiration but the preservation that the KJV was derived from accurate Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

If the KJV is inspired, were the apographs, where 5,000 manuscripts disagreed each other, inspired also?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

And God, would see to it, that every human being, was going to be able to rightly understand His Word, regardless of their language.

Does that include English speakers in the 21st century, or must they learn 17th century English?

 

[Deacon]

... the scriptures themselves declare the texts the Ethiopian eunuch to be reading "scripture", and almost all scholars agree he was reading a Greek translations of the OT, which would also necessarily be a copy.

I will trust God's word over the opinions of men. If the scriptures themselves show that an accurate translation and a copy of scripture are scripture, that's good enough for me.

It's quite strange to be agreeing with the few of you I don't usually side with. :tongue3: FTR, in no way do I support the inspiration of a single version!

Ya’ll miss the important portion of the passage:

All Scripture is breathed out by God and

1) profitable for teaching,
2) for reproof,
3) for correction, and
4) for training in righteousness,
that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV)

Translations derive their authority from the inspired words they translate.
As they correctly translate the meaning, they are inspired, even if not perfectly.

Translations are used by God to speak to us today as they did to the Ethiopian eunuch

… they provided Translations into the vulgar for their Countreymen, insomuch that most nations under heaven did shortly after their conversion, heare CHRIST speaking unto them in their mother tongue, not by the voyce of their Minister onely, but also by the written word translated.

No cause therefore why the word translated should bee denied to be the word, or forbidden to be currant, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting foorth of it.
KJV Preface

Rob

 

[Winman]

Translations derive their authority from the inspired words they translate.
As they correctly translate the meaning, they are inspired, even if not perfectly.

Thank you Rob, that is what I am saying. If a translation is not inspired, it would not have the power to convict the soul. But the scriptures say the word of God is quick and powerful.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

One only needs attend a revival to see the powerful effect the word of God has on men. It is obvious that our English translation (and other translations in other languages) carries the power of God. I have personally seen dozens of men come down to accept Christ after hearing a powerful sermon from the word of God (in English).

And this is exactly what we see in the story of the Ethiopian eunuch. Though he was listening to a translation and copy of the Hebrew OT, he was convicted to trust on Jesus for salvation.