Featured What is Lordship Salvation?

Here is a decent website:
http://www.cornerstonekjv1611.com.au/faq/index.php?sid=156&lang=en&action=artikel&id=85

 

So if one doesn't follow or agree with Lordship salvation, does that person not believe in sanctification? I do see a lot of easy believism today where seeker churches just get someone to sign a profession of faith or raise their hand to agree to be saved, then it is up to the believer to follow the Lord. If that person was never changed by the Holy Spirit then they will not have a desire to follow Christ and want to please Him. I think we see a lot of this today. I used to belong to a Seeker church where they had classes for unchurched people to attend to see what this church had to offer. Then once a person was saved they were encouraged to join a small group, but no discipleship training at all. It seemed as if they added Jesus to their lives just as they would add a second car to the garage. Maybe that is why we have the 80/20 principle?

 

No, we believe that salvation is progressive; that it continues throughout a person's life.

If a person has genuinely trusted the Lord, is it not up to that person to follow the Lord, ideally with the help of the local church and those in the church to help disciple him.

No matter what your view of salvation, if a person does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit he is not saved. That is what happens at salvation, isn't it? We change because we have the Holy Spirit, not in order to have the Holy Spirit.

I agree that there is a lack of discipleship training in our churches today.

 

Lordship salvation embraces both repentance and faith unlike Savior only salvation which only deals with believing.

Repentance is not summed up in turning from sin. It is not what we turn from but Who we turn to. There are many people who want to be free from the consequences of sin but do not want to turn from the sin that causes the consequences.
There are a many a person who hears of the loving Jesus and are willing to accept Him in that, but have no intention of turning to God.
Savior salvation leaves the person not only in their sin but with their sin.
Lordship set them free from both.
Lordship salvation is when the person is ready to get right with God on His terms no matter what it may cost them. It is a heart/spirit attitude brought about by brokenness because of their sin. That is repentance, they are turning to God. At that point they are pointed to take that heart and place it on Jesus as He has paid for their sin and faith is born and they are born again.
This false claim of accepting Jesus as Savior and getting saved and sometime later accepting Him as Lord is a false gospel. If He is not received as who He is “Lord” then He does not enter in.

 

What's the Lordship Salvation take on backsliding (possibility, variety, degree, length of time, still saved? etc.), which is a fairly baptistic and practical doctrine (e.g. Peter as opposed to Judas Iscariot) and in my opinion not in conflict with once saved, always saved?

Jonathan C. Borland

 

You said "Lordship salvation is when the person is ready to get right with God on His terms no matter what it may cost them. It is a heart/spirit attitude brought about by brokenness because of their sin." A person is never ready to get right with God on His terms. We are all in a fallen state, and without a touch from God, we will never turn to him. We dont turn, He draws. Another flaw in that statement is that everything to become Christ like is instantaneous. We are sanctified as the Lord sees fit. The evidence is quite clear, since we continue to sin in thought, motivation, or action after salvation. If being like Christ, turning from all sin, and becoming more spiritually mature were instant, then the word sanctification could be set aside.

In your last statement you say "getting saved." How does one get saved? Again, it implies action of the sinner, not the work of a merciful God. Since the Lord does the work, the very concept you talk about in that last sentence of "sometime later accepting the Lord" is a strawman. The Lord does not have a handy dandy two stage process. So, to argue against something that does not exist is a mute point.

At another point, you say "they take that heart and put it on Jesus." This is the third example of the effort of a sinful man "doing things" for salvation.

 

I would define a backslidden state as that period of time where a child of God grieves and quenches the Holy Spirit through disobedience and unconfessed sin. I think I would not minimize its consequences, since I believe it changes not only one's eternal position in terms of eternal rewards but also one's temporary position in terms of being Spirit-filled, qualified for certain ministries, reception of God's favor as opposed to his chastening, etc. My main question as regards Lordship Salvation remains: Is there room in it for backsliding as I have defined it? If so, doesn't it kind of create a paradox with the primary premise of Lordship Salvation?

 

Lordship salvation embraces both repentance and faith unlike Savior only salvation which only deals with believing.

Repentance is not summed up in turning from sin. It is not what we turn from but Who we turn to. There are many people who want to be free from the consequences of sin but do not want to turn from the sin that causes the consequences.
There are a many a person who hears of the loving Jesus and are willing to accept Him in that, but have no intention of turning to God.
Savior salvation leaves the person not only in their sin but with their sin.
Lordship set them free from both.
Lordship salvation is when the person is ready to get right with God on His terms no matter what it may cost them. It is a heart/spirit attitude brought about by brokenness because of their sin. That is repentance, they are turning to God. At that point they are pointed to take that heart and place it on Jesus as He has paid for their sin and faith is born and they are born again.
This false claim of accepting Jesus as Savior and getting saved and sometime later accepting Him as Lord is a false gospel. If He is not received as who He is “Lord” then He does not enter in.

 

KJV Dictionary Definition: backslide

backslide

BACKSLI'DE, v.i. back and slide. To fall off; to apostatize; to turn gradually from the faith and practice of christianity. Jer.iii. Hos.iv.
backslider

BACKSLI'DER, n. An apostate; one who falls from the faith and practice of religion. Prov.xiv.
2. One who neglects his vows of obedience and falls into sin.
backsliding

BACKSLI'DING, n. The act of apostatizing from faith or practice; a falling insensibly from religion into sin or idolatry.

It is impossible for a believer to be an apostate. The term is for the lost. Backsliding is only used for a nation in scripture and never an individual and it is used for a people who were apostate (lost) comparing them to past generations who were saved. A believer cannot backslide from a biblical stance. A backslider is an apostate and all apostates are lost.

 

I would say that Lordship salvation is coming to Jesus for who He is to get saved.

 

God does the saving, not man. There are no half steps. Either one is saved or they are not. Since God is in charge of the act of salvation, I doubt God creates a senario where a person is saved and continues in blatant sin. That is a man made invention. There is no need to create a new type of salvation called Lordship. The one described in the Bible does just fine.

 

Of course God does the saving but man has his part to accept the saving God will do. God does not save people who want to continue in their rebellion. Man must repent. Lordship is not a new type. It is simply an another way to say what the bible says instead of what man is saying in just accepting Jesus as savior to be saved which is false.

 

From John Macarthur:

"Christians can be carnal. That is, they can behave in carnal ways. But "carnal Christian" is not a plane of existence where one can remain indefinitely. Carnality is never spoken of by Scripture as a perpetual state for believers. In other words, while Christians can be carnal in their behavior, they are never carnal in their nature."

Yes, Christians can "backslide" to some degree. But the scriptures say that the person who practices unrighteousness IS unrighteous (not justified). So it is not a permanent state of existence.

 

Something that I wrote to illustrate the differences... Hope this is helpful:

 

Repentance is part and parcel of salvation. There is no saving belief in God without repentance. The theological bifurcation of faith and works is not really healthy, since in reality they are inseparably intertwined. The problem is that this old body ain't glorified yet and must be crucified daily and beat into submission through the power of the Holy Spirit who lives within. But if I remember MacArthur correctly, at points of failure Jesus Christ is not "Lord of all" and thus not "Lord at all." I think such terminology is unfortunate and easily misinterpreted. Sinning and confession/repentance remain daily activities.

 

That would NOT be in accordance with what I have read and heard Macarthur say...LS proponents would affirm that the Christian walk includes daily failure, confession and repentance.