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What is the definition of Apostate?

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by thjplgvp, May 21, 2006.

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  1. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    As I read some of the threads this morning I thought to myself "If I duid it I get trouble (thought, finger tapping, grin, bigger grin)... I duid it"

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I was told years ago, by whom I am not sure, that the definition of apostate is "one who deliberately rejects revealed truth" obviously on this board truth is sometimes subjective none-the-less is this a true and accurate definition as defined by standards of faith and not a dictionary which is written by man and holds a worlds definition generally.

    thjplgvp
     
    #1 thjplgvp, May 21, 2006
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    2Th 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away , and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,

    apostasia
    Thayer Definition:
    1) a falling away, defection, apostasy


    According to some dispies on this board, apostacy is synonymous with rapture. Therefore an apostate is one who is raptured.
     
    #2 Grasshopper, May 21, 2006
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Under normal conditions, I wouldn't go to Webster's for a Biblical definition. But I think this is as good as any.

    Main Entry: apos·ta·sy
    Pronunciation: &-'päs-t&-sE
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
    Etymology: Middle English apostasie, from Late Latin apostasia, from Greek, literally, revolt, from aphistasthai to revolt, from apo- + histasthai to stand -- more at STAND
    1 : renunciation of a religious faith
    2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty
     
    #3 npetreley, May 21, 2006
  4. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    2 Thessalonians 2:3 says, "Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away , and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,"

    Apostasy is a falling away. It's someone who knows or who has been shown the truth and falls away from it.
     
    #4 Hope of Glory, May 21, 2006
  5. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    "According to some dispies on this board, apostacy is synonymous with rapture. Therefore an apostate is one who is raptured."

    As David Carradine would be told, "Ahh Grasshopper, you are to quick to judge"

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #5 thjplgvp, May 21, 2006
  6. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    How in the world did you come up with apostacy [sic] is synonymous with rapture?
     
    #6 Hope of Glory, May 21, 2006
  7. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

    Some dispensationalists have "found" that the "falling away (apostasia)" refers to the rapture. I think that's terrible exegesis.
     
    #7 StefanM, May 21, 2006
  8. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    StefanM I would agree it is terrible exegesis.

    Grasshopper I consider myself a strong dispensationalist and yet I have never considered falling away as being the rapture.

    I was not a language major but I can assure you I can use a Strongs and I think I remember how to exegete a passage of scripture but not sure I am getting older.
    :D [​IMG]


    When I read many of the posts concerning dispensatinalism I see the dispensational view attacked constantly. Anyone on this board can attack it takes little forthought and no restraint, temperance or patience which seems odd considering we are all commanded to be filled with the Spirit and part of the fruit of that filling is temperance, patience, godliness...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    thjplgvp
     
    #8 thjplgvp, May 21, 2006
  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    I've never in my life, until I read this thread, heard of anyone comparing "caught up" with "falling away".
     
    #9 Hope of Glory, May 21, 2006
  10. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    My uncle had apostate surgery a few months ago. He's doing well now.
     
    #10 rbell, May 21, 2006
  11. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    rbell, your killing me man.

    [​IMG]
     
    #11 thjplgvp, May 21, 2006
  12. terriloo

    terriloo New Member

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    rbell--you simply MUST be my father in disguise--your sense of humor is EXACTLY like his!
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #12 terriloo, May 21, 2006
  13. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    From the leading dispie writer and mouthpiece of Tim LaHaye himself, Thomas Ice.

    http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=165


    I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

    John MacArthur in his Study Bibe acknowledges this view is held by some. But thankfully he rejects this view.

    In debates on this forum Ed Edwards and another gave this view as well. Perhaps Ed will address this for us all.


    Is judging the same as telling the truth? No my Master.

    If you think your view is attacked, try being a preterist. At least I don’t believe dispies to be heretics.

    Foolish isn’t it? Thank you Thomas Ice.

    [​IMG]
     
    #13 Grasshopper, May 21, 2006
  14. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    Grasshopper,

    Thank you for the info ( I stand corrected) but in all fairness Dr. Lahaye has made his mark Psychology and fiction (are those synonyms hehehe) and not dispensationism.

    I checked the internet and to my knowledge he has not written a work on Dispensationalism though I have been wrong once already and it could happen again.

    As a Preterist are you reformed, partial or Hyper or is there another I am not familiar with. BTW I am not real familiar with any of them.
    :D
     
    #14 thjplgvp, May 21, 2006
  15. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    This thread made me look up the word. It seems to have originally meant open political revolt; open rebellion. It was later used in the LXX in 1 Maccabees 2:15 about Antiochus Epiphanes who was enforcing the apostasy from Judaism to Hellenism. In Joshua 22:22 it occurs for rebellion against the Lord. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it seems that the word means a religious revolt and the use of the definite article makes it clear that Paul had spoken to the Thessalonians about it already. The only other use of the word in the NT is in Acts 21:21.
     
    #15 Hope of Glory, May 21, 2006
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    To be clear, it was Thomas Ice that pushes this idea. As for LaHaye, he has wriiten or co-written several books on eschatology:

    http://www.armageddonbooks.com/lahaye.html

    I am reformed if by reformed you mean holding to the Doctrines of Grace. Partial-preterist would label my view hyper-preterism. I call it full or consistent preterism or Covenant Eschatology.

    Others just call it heresy. [​IMG]
     
    #16 Grasshopper, May 21, 2006
  17. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Grasshopper, does this mean you deny the 2nd coming of Christ? I am asking honestly, not trying to be argumentative.
     
    #17 Marcia, May 22, 2006
  18. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp Member

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    Covenant I understand. I don't think you are a heretic but you must be a good student of history in order to defend your position.
     
    #18 thjplgvp, May 22, 2006
  19. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    But that would fall under the definition of apostate, wouldn't it?
     
    #19 James_Newman, May 22, 2006
  20. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Absolutely not, I affirm His return.

    Mat 26:64 Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens .
     
    #20 Grasshopper, May 22, 2006
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