What is the point of this warning?

For if WE sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge HIS people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, sometimes being publicly exposed to abuse and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. For you had compassion on the prisoners, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.

 

So you admit this passage was written to born again believers correct?

I wonder why the writer of Hebrews would tell these born again believers the following:

1. For if WE sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.

2. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

3. The Lord will judge HIS people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

4. Therefore do not throw away your confidence.

Why would the writer say these things to born again believers. Do you believe that YOU are subject to those things PL?

 

So then you advoczte lying to people by telling them on one had that their election IS sure and on the other hand they must MAKE IT sure. Is that correct?

And you also imply that the Hebrews writer is a deceiver who would otherwise deny that anyone could fall short of salvation when jesus comes but at the same time uses warnings that they might.

Unfortunate.

 

PL: No, that is completely silly. Election is sure, but assurance is a different matter.

BE: But you said one had to make his calling and election sure. Are you confused?

And is your assurance not sure PL? Do tell.

PL: You are yet again confused by very simple distinction. Possession of salvation and possession of assurance are two very different things.

BE: I see. So the writer was warning these born again believers of a dreadful judgment to give them the assurance this could never happen to them right?


PL: And no, the author of Hebrews is not deceitful. That is a blasphemous charge against the Holy Spirit who inspired the writing. Those who are truly saved will not fall short. But some who think they are saved might fall short because they are not saved.

BE: So why bother warning them PL?

PL: What is unfortunate is that you do not study, you show no receptivity to the truth of God's word, you change it to suit you and deny it when you wish. And then you have the audacity to accuse me of that. You know better.

BE: Yes I know better PL. I see your contrivances coming from a mile away and I know the hole you are digging for yourself even if you are too far into denial to know yourself.

 

So your assurance is sure but you wish to say that you are not always sure if your assurance is sure. Is that correct PL?

You have failed to explain why these people were warned by God that if they deliberately sin there is no longer any sacrifice for sins but a fearful punishment by God that will consume his adversaries. How does this relate to your "assurance" interpretation PL?

 

I see so you want to play the old, "they were never saved in the first place card" do ya?

Well, sorry PL, but that just ain't a gonna work.

Here is who he is talking to:

Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

For if WE go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth...

These people are those who were santified (see verse 29, and we have the writer warning those who are born again that "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins... a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries ... severer punishment (than the Law)..."

Looks like you need to explain why born again believers themselves are warned in this way.

After all, the Calvinist would never say such a thing about born again believers would he?

 

For if WE go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth...

1. Who is WE Larry?

2. What does it say will happen to WE if they do this?

 

So why would he say that he himelf, if he turned away from Christ, would go to hell Larry?

 

PL: That's not what he said. He said if he, or anyone else turned away, there was no other sacrifice. They had rejected their only sacrifice. Dying in that state would lead to hell. And yes, it is true about the author. If he were to do that, he would go to hell. It is true about anyone.

BE: And so this story comes to an end PL. What you are essentially saying is that the writer is warning these people, including the inspired writer of Hebrews, that if they do this they will go to hell. However, what you completely missed is one very important thing. If indeed he did this and Calvinism was true, he is a then a deceiver and he is manipulating these people by deception to behave a certain way by threatening them with a warning about the possibility of going to hell you say could never occur to a born again Christian.

In other words, if the writer believed as you do that no one Christian could truly end up in hell, he was lying to them by presenting them with a hypothetical notion that cannot occur (according to you) and manipulating them with it and deceiving them into action with it.