Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: At the time Jesus used the word 'Satan' when addressing Peter, what evidence is there that he was ‘saved?’ Did not Jesus say later on “and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren?”
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What is Your Cross?
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
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HP: At the time Jesus used the word 'Satan' when addressing Peter, what evidence is there that he was ‘saved?’ Did not Jesus say later on “and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren?”
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: It is not my argument JJ. It is what Jesus said concerning him. What kind of evidence do you need?
Back to the OP: Jesus said, Mt 10:38 “And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.” Are we to suppose that it was ‘Judas’s cross’ in following Christ to deny Him for thirty pieces of silver?
I don't inderstand die to yourself.J. Jump said:
Faithgirl
Hi faithgirl46 and welcome to the discussion. Dying to self means that as much as possible you drop your agenda in life and take up God's agenda for your life. Not my will be done, but Thy will be done. It means that you allow the Holy Spirit to live out the life of Christ within your body.
Paul said he was crucified with Christ yet he lived, but it wasn't him that was living it was Christ living in him.
If you are still fulfilling your own wants, needs and desires then you are not dying to self. We are to be seeking the kingdom above all else. And when we do that there are going to be alot of things that will be upset on the fleshly apple cart, because our souls (which are still in darkness) continue to want to be surrounded in darkness, while our spirits (which have been moved into the Marvelous Light) desire to stay in the Light.
That's why there is a battle going on between the flesh and the Spirit. The two are at odds. We have to die to self and let the Spirit win.
Hope that helps.
Sure it is your argument, because Scripture doesn't even remotely come close to saying Peter was spiritually dead (unsaved) at the moment he was called Satan by Christ.
What kind of evidence do I need? Some Scriptural evidence that says Peter was unsaved or some that even implies that. And you have delievered neither.
Of course that was not Judas' cross. That was Judas not dying to self and allowing his flesh to rule the moment. If he would have taken up his cross in that situation he never would have betrayed the Lord.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: You don’t believe that for a minute JJ. That makes for a great talking point, but you don’t believe you ‘have to.’ It reminds me of that old cowboy preacher who said, “Those Calvinists preach real good. The problem is that they have a secret agreement among themselves that it does not mean them.”
According to you it doesn’t make a hill of beans what you do. You can even sell out Christ Himself for thirty pieces of silver and be saved all the time. All this talk about ‘needing to die to self’ is a sham with you, mere meaningless verbiage. What you really mean is that it might be nice if you do, or that maybe you should, but you deny the Word of God that says ‘if you do not’ you are not worthy of Him. If there was ever a case of presenting a case of a sinning religion, JJ has presented it clearly for all to see. Don't tell me that some in the Calvinist circles do not preach that one can be saved yet be practricing sin.
What gets me, is how heated the words get when some on this list start presenting some false notions, yet I hardly hear a peep when JJ presents his unscriptural notions of a sinning religion. Is it worse not to believe in a literal hell than to preach that one can practice open sin and remain a Christian all the time? Is it worse to believe that hell is not a literal place than to believe that one can live a life of blatant sin such as Judas, without sincere repentance, yet say that one is saved all the time? I cannot think of a single verse that states if you do not believe in a literal hell that you are not worthy of Christ, although I personally do in fact believe that hell is literal. Just the same, JJ and others can get on this list and deny the validity of the Scriptures that say that if you do not take up your cross and follow Christ, or that if you deny Christ that Christ will deny you, that you will not be found worthy of Christ and as such not inherit the kingdom of God, and little or no voice of concern is heard. I stand amazed. If there ever was a doctrine foreign to the Word of God, JJ has clearly presented it. Where is the outcry against the false doctrine of a sinning religion, that one can be practicing sin yet be saved all the time, such as JJ is presenting?
J. Jump said:
Matthew 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
I never know how to take Judas question. Is this the question of a loyal saved person about to be overtaken in a moment of weakness or is this the words of the guilty wondering if he'd just been busted?
John says after they ate; John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. So John implies that when Judas asked whas it him, Satan was not in him but he enters Judas after they ate.
This leaves the question, can Satan use the saved to accomplish his will? If yes then JJ may have a point. If no then HP is right.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
I have seen Satan use a lot of saved people to accomplish his will.
Ever been to a church business meeting???
Ever been to a church business meeting???
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Does this not go way beyond Satan merely using someone? Was this not clearly a case of one voluntarily giving ones self over to the devil to possess themselves, and that for the mere love of thirty pieces of silver?
The first commandment is summed up as follows. Love God with all your heart. “He that saith he loveth me, and keepeth not my commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him.”
Either we are for Him or against Him. Is there any question as to whether or not Judas was for or against Christ? Certainly we are not the final judge of Judas, but when we start making doctrine that one can be possessed of the devil himself and at the same time be right with God, we have left the confines of reason and Scripture.
This is the results of following doctrines of demons. The more one trys to defend such a doctrine the more and more they fall into heresy. "Judas saved" , unbelieveable! And then Jim Jones who murdered hundreds and Davis Koresh who raped little girls and declared he was Christ himself is also saved! Hitler as well. Absurd! Absolutely absurd. It totally takes the precious word of God and drags it through the mud turning it inside out.
Sad doctrine, So sad. :tear:
God Bless!
This doctrine of demons is clear. It preaches that 95% of the NT scriptures is preaching about how the saved can have their souls saved.
The actual truth is that 95% of the entire bible is about saving the living soul God created and there is no seperate salvation between soul and spirit taught, ever!
Satan always attacks God's Word in ways that dirrectly opposes the truth. Sad part is some well meaning Christians do fall for it just like Eve in the garden...."Yea, did God really say".......twisting and turning the truth at every rebuke!
God Bless! :thumbs:
The actual truth is that 95% of the entire bible is about saving the living soul God created and there is no seperate salvation between soul and spirit taught, ever!
Satan always attacks God's Word in ways that dirrectly opposes the truth. Sad part is some well meaning Christians do fall for it just like Eve in the garden...."Yea, did God really say".......twisting and turning the truth at every rebuke!
God Bless! :thumbs:
Amen. And the "church" is one of his best players right now unfortunately. For example the "church" can't even agree on what the simple gospel message of eternal salvation is as evidenced by a poll I started in the theology section of the BB. At last check 12 people have voted and they voted for three different answers. If some of our "other" Baptist brethren would vote and some CoC folks you would have at least four answers to that question.
Talk about a nice talking point. Once again you don't know. Don't pretend like you do. You don't know what is sincere and if there is anything that isn't. Only God Himself knows that, so please don't pretend like you are Him. That's REALLY annoying.
Die to self is in FACT NOT a sham. It is a command. But as with any command you can obey or you can disobey. There are consequences for both.
Do people have a choice to live in sin. Of course they do. Are there consequences for that choice? Of course there are.
By the way I'm not "ignoring" anything. I fully believe that a person that lives in sin is "not worth of Him." However I would suspect that my views and your views are not in line as to what that means. And just because I don't hold "your" views doesn't mean I'm ignoring the text.
You might try "honest" discussions instead of "your" shams.
I don't post in these boards because I think I'm going to convince any of your "regulars." It is more for those they call "lurkers" that I post. And for our "lukers" the fruit of dishonesty should be very apparent in how you deal on these threads and should cause them to think even harder about what you have to say.
It always amazes me that you folks can just defend your own positions, but you have to attack the character of us because that is the only defense you are left with. Scripture doesn't support your views so I know let's make them look "crazy" so no one will listen to them. And unfortunately I'm sure that tactic works with some. Hopefully not with everyone though.
Hope of Glory
New Member
steaver said:
Well, we have an agreement point here.
But, I think that ignoring and omitting the gospel of the Kingdom is the attack, not the preaching the gospel of the Kingdom that John and Jesus came preaching.
LeBuick there are a number of times in the gospels that we see people that are doing the will of Satan. Christ even called Peter out for having such thoughts when he tried to say that Christ wasn't going to go to the cross.
Thankfully Peter realized he needed to get out of the way, because if he would have kept Christ from going to the cross he would have indeed been doing Satan's bidding.
There is no doubt that Satan uses saved individuals to move forward "his" agenda. We have Scriptural evidence of this. Just look at the wheat and the tares. Most people say the tares are unsaved folks, but the text does not support such a position.
As I said in a previous post unfortunately the church is one of Satan's best players right now. They are up on MVP status. That's why in Revelation 3 Christ is standing on the outside at the door, knocking to get in, but you will notice that it is only individuals that allow Him in. It's not a great majority. The vast majority of Christendom is lukewarm, blind, miserable and naked, yet they believe they are well clothed, rich and in need of nothing
. Woe to the pastor/teachers that have allowed the church to reach this stage.