What Makes a Will Free?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Due to the persistent confusion over the issue of free will and what it entails, there is a need once again to look at free will. Some evidently have formed wrong opinions as to how a will that is considered as 'free' would operate, and then judge the issue of free will according to that false idea of what they see it entailing.

First, the will is simply the chooser, it chooses between two or more influences upon the will. A free will is a will that is not under force or coercion to act in accordance to any one influence, but honestly can choose between different influences and as such be considered as the determining cause of which influence it chooses to align its subsequent formed intents. Only as the will is free to choose without force or coercion is it considered to be free. Only as the will is free is it a proper subject of moral praise or blame. If the will is coerced or forced in any way, all moral blame or praise is automatically shifted from the will itself to whoever or whatever is applying such a level of force that it cannot be avoided.

Thoughts, questions or corrections?

 

[Amy.G]

What makes a will free?

God.

He's God. He can do stuff like that.

 

[TCGreek]

Due to the persistent confusion over the issue of free will and what it entails, there is a need once again to look at free will. Some evidently have formed wrong opinions as to how a will that is considered as 'free' would operate, and then judge the issue of free will according to that false idea of what they see it entailing.

First, the will is simply the chooser, it chooses between two or more influences upon the will. A free will is a will that is not under force or coercion to act in accordance to any one influence, but honestly can choose between different influences and as such be considered as the determining cause of which influence it chooses to align its subsequent formed intents. Only as the will is free to choose without force or coercion is it considered to be free. Only as the will is free is it a proper subject of moral praise or blame. If the will is coerced or forced in any way, all moral blame or praise is automatically shifted from the will itself to whoever or whatever is applying such a level of force that it cannot be avoided.

Thoughts, questions or corrections?

1. If your definition of free will is correct, then no person alive has free will.

2. Rather, because of the fall, man's will is bondage to sin and cannot fit the definition given above.

 

[Cutter]

Did Adam and Eve have free will?

 

[webdog]

1. If your definition of free will is correct, then no person alive has free will.

2. Rather, because of the fall, man's will is bondage to sin and cannot fit the definition given above.

Curious...how can a corpse be in bondage to anything? What Scripture says man's will is in bondage to sin?

 

[TCGreek]

Curious...how can a corpse be in bondage to anything? What Scripture says man's will is in bondage to sin?

When a person understands the unity of Scripture and combines what Paul says in Rom 3:9-20 and Eph 2:1-3 wit what Jeremiah says in Jer.13:23, there's no doubt in my mind that the person would conclude the bondage of the will of man by sin.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: 1. If your definition of free will is correct, then no person alive has free will.

2. Rather, because of the fall, man's will is bondage to sin and cannot fit the definition given above.

HP: Oh the tangled web of error that Augustine created as he foisted his false dogma of original sin upon the Church.

Here again TCG, only as one approaches the issue of a free will from the presupposition of original sin, as you have clearly done, is free will as I have presented withheld from man.

If for no other reason than recognizing that God blames and praises man should one readily accept that man indeed has a free will today IF he is a moral agent and as such held accountable for his moral intents. Scripture clearly represents God as holding man accountable, therefore our wills must indeed be free. Man is a willing rebel and not simply the victim of his circumstances. He is a sinner by choice, not a sinner by inherited guilt.

Luther, in his "Bondage of the Will," certainly missed it on this important point.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

WebDog: Curious...how can a corpse be in bondage to anything? What Scripture says man's will is in bondage to sin?

HP: If you tell me how one that is suppose to be ‘dead to sin’ can still sin, I will have an answer for you as well.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Cutter: Did Adam and Eve have free will?

HP: I say absolutely, and so do we. If you ask some on the list, they will tell you that Adam and Eve’s action were the simple necessitated results of God ordaining them to act as they did. Some of the same feather will point blank tell you that God put it in Adam’s heart to sin. Most on this list seemingly desire to be coy about their true sentiments and avoid those clear words, but their held beliefs are obviously in complete agreement with that false and wicked notion.

 

[TCGreek]

HP: Oh the tangled web of error that Augustine created as he foisted his false dogma of original sin upon the Church.

Here again TCG, only as one approaches the issue of a free will from the presupposition of original sin, as you have clearly done, is free will as I have presented withheld from man.

1. Augustine is not my Authority; Scripture is, so let's deal with Scripture.

If for no other reason than recognizing that God blames and praises man should one readily accept that man indeed has a free will today IF he is a moral agent and as such held accountable for his moral intents.

2. Everything that man does is tainted with sin (Isa.64:6).

Scripture clearly represents God as holding man accountable, therefore our wills must indeed be free. Man is a willing rebel and not simply the victim of his circumstances. He is a sinner by choice, not a sinner by inherited guilt.

3. That Scripture holds man accountable is clear, because man must respond to the will of a holy God.

4. Scripture says that the offspring of Adam sinned in Adam (Rom 5:12).

5. Paul says that by nature we are all the children of wrath (Eph 2:3).

Luther, in his "Bondage of the Will," certainly missed it on this important point.

6. Forget about Augustine and Luther, and let's deal with Scripture.

 

[Cutter]

HP: I say absolutely, and so do we.

Amen!:thumbsup:

 

[TCGreek]

HP, If man didn't inherit a sin-nature, can he so live without sinning against God, only choosing the good?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: HP, If man didn't inherit a sin-nature, can he so live without sinning against God, only choosing the good?

HP: I must maintain two positions. Yes, I believe that the theoretical ‘POSSIBILIY’ indeed must exist, for without that existence of ‘POSSIBILITY” choice or freedom is non-existent. I also believe God’s Word in that NONE in our dispensation do so. Scripture is clear. ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.’ Scriptures states that in times past God winked at their ignorance but now calls on ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent. There are NO exceptions according to Scripture. Every living man has or will sin, and come short of the glory of God, and as such are in need of salvation. “ALL we like sheep ‘have gone’ astray and turned everyone to his own way.”

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Due to the persistent confusion over the issue of free will and what it entails, there is a need once again to look at free will. Some evidently have formed wrong opinions as to how a will that is considered as 'free' would operate, and then judge the issue of free will according to that false idea of what they see it entailing.

First, the will is simply the chooser, it chooses between two or more influences upon the will. A free will is a will that is not under force or coercion to act in accordance to any one influence, but honestly can choose between different influences and as such be considered as the determining cause of which influence it chooses to align its subsequent formed intents. Only as the will is free to choose without force or coercion is it considered to be free. Only as the will is free is it a proper subject of moral praise or blame. If the will is coerced or forced in any way, all moral blame or praise is automatically shifted from the will itself to whoever or whatever is applying such a level of force that it cannot be avoided.

Thoughts, questions or corrections?

HP,

Would you clarify a few questions for me?

1. Do you believe man's nature, born into this world, is basically good?

2. Do you believe man has the ability to do the will of God, if he/she will, apart from any influence from God?

3. Do you believe that people born after Adam are born with the same purity and moral abililty that Adam had?

4. Can mankind choose God by their own free will and rational thought?

 

[webdog]

When a person understands the unity of Scripture and combines what Paul says in Rom 3:9-20 and Eph 2:1-3 wit what Jeremiah says in Jer.13:23, there's no doubt in my mind that the person would conclude the bondage of the will of man by sin.

...but like I asked...how can a corpse be in bondage to anything? Your side always states that man is "dead", and dead men cannot chose anything...well, dead men also cannot be in bondage to anything, can they?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

RB: Would you clarify a few questions for me?

1. Do you believe man's nature, born into this world, is basically good?

HP: Men are born with a moral capacity, not morally good or evil. All have chosen evil according to Scripture.

RB: 2. Do you believe man has the ability to do the will of God, if he/she will, apart from any influence from God?

HP: There is no one alive, heathen or saint, that lives apart from the influence of God in some measure, with the possible exception of the one in whom the Spirit of God has been withdrawn.

RB: 3. Do you believe that people born after Adam are born with the same purity and moral abililty that Adam had?

HP: No man is born with moral impurity or moral goodness. Morality is the product of the intents of mans will. Scripture states that all, at some point in time have sinned and became morally impure.

RB: 4. Can mankind choose God by their own free will and rational thought?

HP: No man is devoid of some measure of understanding of God, right and wrong etc. All men have not had the gospel presented to them as I read Scripture. Men are granted a free will by God and must exercise it in order to be saved. They do not ‘will their salvation into effect’ for God is the sole Author and grounds of our salvation, yet just the same, without the exercising of their will in obedience, fulfilling the conditions God has set forth, no man shall see God. Due to the fact that God is involved in the heart and mind of every sentient being to some degree, or has been, your question is for all honesty, simply a mute question.

 

[BobRyan]

Did Adam and Eve have free will?

yes -- so did Lucifer and Gabriel

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Webdog: well, dead men also cannot be in bondage to anything, can they?

HP: Now that it indeed an interesting thought. :laugh:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

If one does unprovoked bodily harm to another, is it a sin?

 

[TCGreek]

...but like I asked...how can a corpse be in bondage to anything? Your side always states that man is "dead", and dead men cannot chose anything...well, dead men also cannot be in bondage to anything, can they?

1. Well, argue with me about what I said. I have not used the expression of "dead," tonight in our discussions.

2. And if I were to, your equivalence of "corpse" is not what the Scriptures nor Calvinists mean by "dead in sin."