What Makes a Will Free?

[webdog]

Excellent post, HP!

 

[Amy.G]

Webdog is correct. Excellent post.
:thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

Rom 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul was physically alive when the Law was here and did not die physically when the Law came but died in sin. Paul did not go "out" in sin, but when the Law came, it taught him that he was already a sinner. Paul had done many things wrong before he came to know God and Glorified Him not as God and when the Law came to Paul, he became accountable. So do we, we all have done many things wrong in our youth which would be sin, if the Law was in force, but the Law did not come to us until we come to know God and Glorified Him not as God, the Law entered and we became accountable then for all we had done. In other words, those things we did that were wrong but not sin, became sin when the Law entered.

Adam's sin, brought one thing to us and that is the physical death. We bring the spiritual death upon ourselves for how could the "soul that sinneth die" if it were already dead. This is why children do not go to hell, that die in youth. The Law is not there to condemn them. If only we all were as a little child truly in a humble way. I know I am not and receive chastisement for it.

BBob,

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: Adam's sin, brought one thing to us and that is the physical death. We bring the spiritual death upon ourselves for how could the "soul that sinneth die" if it were already dead. This is why children do not go to hell, that die in youth. The Law is not there to condemn them. If only we all were as a little child truly in a humble way. I know I am not and receive chastisement for it.

HP: Sorry for the late response. I was trying to decide how to answer. Not to disagree, but rather to get your take on it, what about those that did not see death such as Enoch and Elijah? What about those that will meet the Lord in the air?

Was not man created as a finite man to live on a finite planet for a finite period of time? Does not Scripture state that all things visable are finite and will by design pass away?

 

[webdog]

HP: Sorry for the late response. I was trying to decide how to answer. Not to disagree, but rather to get your take on it, what about those that did not see death such as Enoch and Elijah? What about those that will meet the Lord in the air?

While they didn't die in the sense we know death, their corrupt bodies had to be transformed, fit for Heaven. In a sense the "flesh" would have had to die to make the transformation. Same with those who are fortunate enough to be raptured. Our bodies will go from perishable ones, to eternal, so the perishable side needs to die.

 

[Brother Bob]

HP: Sorry for the late response. I was trying to decide how to answer. Not to disagree, but rather to get your take on it, what about those that did not see death such as Enoch and Elijah? What about those that will meet the Lord in the air?

Was not man created as a finite man to live on a finite planet for a finite period of time? Does not Scripture state that all things visable are finite and will by design pass away?

I think Enoch and Elijah was for the Glory of God, such as the resurrection of Lazuras. The scripture is silent whether there was a twinkling of an eye change for Enoch and Elijah, but if it was once appointed unto man to die, seems that twinkling of an eye would be just that.

Those who will meet the Lord is all of us in the resurrection.

If you are talking about the ones who are alive when He comes, they will have to be changed in a moment a twinkling of an eye. I believe see death for a moment.

Scripture also says the way we are now, we cannot look upon God and that is why I believe there was a moment of death, for how can it me made alive except it first die.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Brother Bob: Scripture also says the way we are now, we cannot look upon God and that is why I believe there was a moment of death, for how can it me made alive except it first die.

HP: In the case of Enoch, did he see death? (It sure is a lot better asking these questions than I would be having if I was trying to answer them myself:laugh: )

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Webdog: While they didn't die in the sense we know death, their corrupt bodies had to be transformed, fit for Heaven. In a sense the "flesh" would have had to die to make the transformation. Same with those who are fortunate enough to be raptured. Our bodies will go from perishable ones, to eternal, so the perishable side needs to die.

HP: certainly there was a translation from the physical to the spiritual, but was that 'death' according to Hebrews?

 

[Brother Bob]

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Quote:


Brother Bob: Scripture also says the way we are now, we cannot look upon God and that is why I believe there was a moment of death, for how can it me made alive except it first die.



HP: In the case of Enoch, did he see death? (It sure is a lot better asking these questions than I would be having if I was trying to answer them myself:laugh: )

Back to the Glory of God and a transformed Enoch. As in the case of Lazurus, did he die two times? When it was only appointed once to die. Jesus being born was out of the Norm. Some things were just for the Glory of God.

Now, let me see you beat that one......................

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: Now, let me see you beat that one......................

HP: It appears to be a dead horse to me:laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

than a door nail...........:laugh:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Do you suppose that God throws some of these things in Scripture just to keep us humble in our interpretations of it? :godisgood: and all the time!

 

[Amy.G]

Do you suppose that God throws some of these things in Scripture just to keep us humble in our interpretations of it? :godisgood: and all the time!

Yup. Dad's are like that.

 

[webdog]

HP: certainly there was a translation from the physical to the spiritual, but was that 'death' according to Hebrews?

If death is simply the soul separated from the body...and our bodies are not fit for Heaven, then our soul / spirit would have to be separated from our physical bodies, hence "death" so to speak.

I think another element to this would be the question: Do we ever truly lose consciousness at death?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Webdog: Do we ever truly lose consciousness at death?

HP: I suppose that would depend on the ride one was taking.