What motivates you to serve the Lord?

[Darron Steele]

You got it! :thumbs:

All of the christians I know that are OSAS camped love and serve the Lord. 100% of them and I know hundreds. In fact they weep at the thought of doing something of sin to dishonor our Lord. Yet every opponant of OSAS will always put in their plug that OSAS just wants to get away with sinning.

This is one reason I put up this poll. It plainly refutes that it takes fear of Hellfire to motivate every Christian.

I have never confronted a christian who was out of fellowship with God, caught up in sin, (and I have confronted many) who said to me "Hey, OSAS right? So I can sin all I want!" . No, everytime I confronted a christian about their sin I was met with remorse and thankfulness that I was concerned for them. Never did I hear "who cares, I'm going to heaven anyway". True christians NEVER say OSAS so sin does not matter. Never! It is a lie preached over and over by the opponants of OSAS. ...

Exactly. It is a lie. It is a slanderous lie.

However, the implication of that attitude are as follows: `We follow the Lord out of compulsion, and if we would not go to Hell, we would not follow the Lord because we really do not want to.'

When confronted with the implications of that, people try to dodge the question, or help those they agree with dodge the question. However, the question is really simple: which is closest to your primary motivation to serve the Lord? As of now, the poll is 16-0 in favor of the second option.

Now, this does not a blanket statement of those who believe in forfeiture of salvation. The religious tenets themselves are not my concern here. Many who believe in forfeiture of salvation do not engage in slanderous behavior; many who believe in forfeiture of salvation still serve the Lord because they want to.

However, the `sharp tongues' have yet to vote their genuine attitudes now that the implications of their attitudes are plain. The second purpose of that poll was to see whether or not the `sharp tongues' would stand by their attitudes when the implications are that clear. Thus far they have not.

I got tired of seeing the slanderous lies against those who do not deserve it, especially when the `negative light' is more deserved by the slanderers. That is why I created this thread and this poll.

 

[christianyouth]

This will sound self-centered. My main motivation for obedience is my own happiness. When I am disobedient, I get chastised (Heb 12). Not very fun. When I am obedient I have joy,peace and fulfilment.

 

[steaver]

This will sound self-centered. My main motivation for obedience is my own happiness. When I am disobedient, I get chastised (Heb 12). Not very fun. When I am obedient I have joy,peace and fulfilment.

Careful though with that way of thinking. My experience has been that in the times in my life when I have been most obedient and faithful are some of the roughest times I have ever experienced in my life. It always seemed in my case that the more I refused to waiver in Christ the more pain that I was given to endure! But praise God He brought me through it! I didn't like it, I confess, but coming out of the valley sure is sweet! :thumbs: It sure is hard to see the light at the end though when you are in the deepest valleys. But praise be to God for sustaining our perserverance as He has promissed!! To God be the glory, nothing of my own.

God Bless!

 

[BobRyan]

This is one reason I put up this poll. It plainly refutes that it takes fear of Hellfire to motivate every Christian.

So we have some "Bible-optional" Christians?

Let's see if maybe there is "some Bible" being directed toward their position --

Certainly at the point of salvation those who are lost are joined to Christ -- they are for the first time "in Him" they are "In Christ". But do they stay there? Do they choose to ABIDE in that condition or do they "lose their first love" and fall away?

John 15
1 ""I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 ""Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3 "" You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 "" Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 ""I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6 ""If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.



Warning regarding the Need to remain faithful – OR God simply reminding himself that He needs to make us persevere in remaining faithful if He wants to save us.

Fallen and yet hoping to be “grafted BACK in again” into the vine of Christ!

Rom 11
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith[/b]. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness[/b]; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And [b]they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.




24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?


Warnging about Forgiveness revoked – OR God reminding himself that He needs to remember to make us “forgiving” if He wants us saved.


Matt 18
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1035489&postcount=59
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1035498&postcount=64
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1035503&postcount=67

Matt 18 <[b]Forgiveness Revoked!>
29 ""So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
30 ""But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 ""So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you[/b], if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''
[/quote]


TRUE statement about those who ARE in Christ and joined to Christ – being SEVERED from Christ – or God reminding Himself that this is something that can never happen?

Severed FROM Christ and Fallen from grace

Gal 5
4 [b]You have been severed from Christ[/b], you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?


In Christ,

Bob

 

[Darron Steele]

The poll totals, which reflect primary personal motivation and not agreement/disagreement with any religious tenet, are now 19-0 in favor of the second motivation.

 

[BobRyan]

Fortunately Bible texts do not "appear" or "dissappear" depending on popularity polls. When your doctrinal view requires a "bible optional" solution to survive - it is the wrong solution.

Matt 18, John 15, Gal 5, Romans 11...etc etc etc are all REAL and can not be swept away by popular views against them. If the only quesion is "which texts would you prefer" then all can choose "the carrot". The fact that God is using two oars instead of one should be "instructive" if not humbling.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

What should motivate us to serve the Lord? Just the fact He saved us.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But how can we if there is the danger the Lord has not saved us?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Fortunately Bible texts do not "appear" or "dissappear" depending on popularity polls. When your doctrinal view requires a "bible optional" solution to survive - it is the wrong solution.

Matt 18, John 15, Gal 5, Romans 11...etc etc etc are all REAL and can not be swept away by popular views against them. If the only quesion is "which texts would you prefer" then all can choose "the carrot". The fact that God is using two oars instead of one should be "instructive" if not humbling.

in Christ,

Bob

GE:

Bob, may you awake from your uncertainty-nightmare! I prefer the sweet carrot of OSAS, God the Faithful being the one offering it!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Steaver:

"Praise be to God for sustaining our perserverance"

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:

"... if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."

GE:

Colour it this way: "... if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God, is able to graft them in again."

Do you think our will or decision enables God? Don't you think God enables our will and our decision rather?

 

[BobRyan]

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness[/b]; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


Christ said he would "DRAW ALL" unto Him. By that supernaturall " drawing of ALL" ALL are ENABLED to make a choice. Some choose Christ and others choose to reject Christ as their "use" of that God-given choice.

He draws EVEN those that HE has SEVERED from Christ - and cast out - until they either turn "once again" to faith or they harden their hearts to the point of never coming back to Christ again.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

GE: Do you think our will or decision enables God? Don't you think God enables our will and our decision rather?

HP: Could you define 'enable' or what it means 'to enable' for the list GE? Is ‘to enable’ to force or coerce?

 

[BobRyan]

HP: Could you define 'enable' or what it means 'to enable' for the list GE? Is ‘to enable’ to force or coerce?

If "enable" means to "CAUSE us to CHOOSE or CAUSE us to act a certain way" then no motivation is needed AT ALL in scripture - just as one does not need to "MOTIVATE the car to start" when in fact turning the key and connecting the circuit is all that is required.

Simply put - We do not "argue the car" into moving the direction we want, we do not explain to the car what will happen if it does not "fear" and "remain faithful" to the direction we have placed it via the steering wheel. And HAVING absolute controle over the car - we can not "blame the car" when we make it run over the neighbor's dog.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BR: If "enable" means to "CAUSE us to CHOOSE or CAUSE us to act a certain way" then no motivation is needed AT ALL in scripture - just as one does not need to "MOTIVATE the car to start" when in fact turning the key and connecting the circuit is all that is required.

Simply put - We do not "argue the car" into moving the direction we want, we do not explain to the car what will happen if it does not "fear" and "remain faithful" to the direction we have placed it via the steering wheel. And HAVING absolute control over the car - we can not "blame the car" when we make it run over the neighbor's dog.

HP: Possibly cars are different in South Africa and operate under different principles?

And about blaming the car, Scripture never states one cannot blame the car, as far as I have read anyway.

 

[BobRyan]

"To him that KNOWS to do right and does it not to him it is sin".

And Ezek 18 makes it clear "the soul that sins it shall die". It is the act of the person not God "driving the person and making them sin - and then blaming the person".

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BR: And Ezek 18 makes it clear "the soul that sins it shall die". It is the act of the person not God "driving the person and making them sin - and then blaming the person".

HP: Seriously BR, your logic is impeccable and right on target. :thumbs: If there was not one solitary Scripture that would prove your point, reason would demand such an answer. It is a first truth of reason that in order to do anything blameworthy or praiseworthy man must have choice. That choice consists in not just ‘doing as one wills’ for that is in reality no choice at all. Choice consists of having the ability to do something other than what one does under the very same set of circumstances. The fact that God blames or praises man for their intents and subsequent actions is proof that God forces or coerces no man in moral decisions. Man is a responsible creature, not the mere product of forces or influences upon him.

 

[BobRyan]

Thanks HP. The good news here is that not only do Arminians get this point but even 3 point Calvinists get the point.

The double-speak that is of the form "why sure you have a choice - you can choose to reject the Gospel like your sinful nature demands or God can zap you and force you to choose salvation" is not found in scripture.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

(BobRyan)...He draws EVEN those that HE has SEVERED from Christ - and cast out - until they either turn "once again" to faith or they harden their hearts to the point of never coming back to Christ again.

in Christ,

Bob

Can't be. You can't have it both ways......

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6)

If "severed" is the action done to those who "fall away" , equating to "loss of salvation once had", then there is no way they could be grafted in again.

You'll have to do some rightful dividing to get the two passages to harmonize.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

It is actually pretty facinating to see the way the details of Romans 11 get ignored by those who object to them.

Rom 11
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness[/b]; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


Christ said he would "DRAW ALL" unto Him. By that supernaturall " drawing of ALL" ALL are ENABLED to make a choice. Some choose Christ and others choose to reject Christ as their "use" of that God-given choice.

He draws EVEN those that HE has SEVERED from Christ - and cast out - until they either turn "once again" to faith or they harden their hearts to the point of never coming back to Christ again.

Instead of fighting against the Romans 11 details - accept them!! In Romans 11 the Jews who fall due to unbelief are not "saved anyway" as much as a tiny group here might want to imagine that they are.

And though they fell due to unbelief - God IS able to graft them in again IF THEY do not CONTINUE in that unbelief. This is usually not a difficult concept for Arminians.

in Christ,

Bob