What motivates you to serve the Lord?

[Darron Steele]

I am going to respectfully disagree with this one. I did come to Christ in 1993 to get out of Hell.

However, it was beginning that day when I wanted to serve the Lord because that is what is good and right, and I owed it to the Lord Who died in agony for me.....

Respectfully then, was it the fear of hell on that day or the broken heart for what the Lord had done for you?...

Unfortunately, the day I came to a minister learn details about getting salvation, I did not know what the Lord had done for me. Sadly, I came only to escape eternal torment.

I had every indication of following whatever I was told when I sat down with the minister. This is despite the fact that I did not know what I was going to be told.

However, as he showed the plan of salvation from the Scriptures, I marveled at how it actually worked, and thought of how wonderful it was. I was quite happy to accept what Christ did for me, and to follow Him.

I hope this provides a satisfactory answer to your question. Does it?

 

[Hope of Glory]

This leads me to conclude, that fear, in the sense of a belief held by faith in God’s Word is at the heart obedience. My question to the list is, can one be truly obedient to a truth of God and not be acting out of love in matters of beliefs that are a matter of faith as we direct our actions in accordance to the avoiding of such a fate such as hell?

I think this is where the law came into play. It showed us that we are incapable of obeying rules for the sake of obeying rules. Even if we keep all the rules, there will be sins of omission that we unintentionally commit. (But, those who do their best to keep the rules simply out of fear, are still keeping the rules as well as the rest of the people are.)

So, we are to live by faith. Living by faith doesn't do away with the moral law. You can't be a drunk, adulterer, etc., and live by faith. But, you behave out of love when you live by faith. Instead of living by "thou shall not"'s, you're living by "love the Lord" and "love your neighbor".

Living under the law will still get you an inheritance. This is pictured in the story surrounding Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael is a son, but is a son under the law. He got an inheritance. But, it was a mere pittance compared to the inheritance that the son of faith received!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Their constant insinuations were that so-called "Once Saved Always Saved" views were held because their adherents wanted to sin.

Which falls into the category of twist, distort, and lie.

I still stand by what I said about the content of the quote, but I apoligize for not reading the quote in the context in which it was said. The context shows that you don't believe it the way the words were stated, but were making a point about someone else.

 

[Darron Steele]

Thanks Hope of Glory.

Now, for Steaver: trying again without the goofs

I am going to respectfully disagree with this one. I did come to Christ in 1993 to get out of Hell.

However, it was beginning that day when I wanted to serve the Lord because that is what is good and right, and I owed it to the Lord Who died in agony for me.....

Respectfully then, was it the fear of hell on that day or the broken heart for what the Lord had done for you?...

Unfortunately, the day I came to a minister to learn details about getting salvation, I did not know what the Lord had done for me. Sadly, I came only to escape eternal torment.

I had every intention of following whatever I was told when I sat down with the minister. This is despite the fact that I did not know what I was going to be told.

However, as he showed the plan of salvation from the Scriptures, I marveled at how it actually worked, and thought of how wonderful it was. I wasquite happy to accept what Christ did for me, and to follow Him.

I hope this provides a satisfactory answer to your question. Does it?

 

[BobRyan]

Paul states that he is "under the LAW of Christ" (2Cor5) and John says that the one who "claims to know Christ" should WALK as Christ WALKED (1John 2) or they are lying about their current relationship with Christ.

Those who hear the warnings of God and obey are simply accepting the Word of God instead of "being the JUDGE of it" according to James.

Those who "pick and choose" which text they will allow are judging it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

To my knowledge, no one here has done this.

Myself personally, I see in Hebrews 13 that God chastizes His children when they `get out of line.' There is some basis for being motivated by fear in Scripture.

There is a possibility that Scripture does teach that Christians can lose salvation. I doubt that Scripture teaches it, but I certainly believe it is reasonable.

However, Scripture points to other reasons to serve the Lord besides fear.

In the "two oars used to steer the boat" example given numerous times on this thread it has been pointed out that "fear" is only one of the oars.

I the OSAS debunking thread a host of texts (warnings to Christians) were pointed out -

As in the case of the post above - these are are "details" that must be followed to carry the discussion forward.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I gotta tell you. I read Jer 7 twice through plus a commentary and I can't see any of what you are talking of.

God Bless! :thumbs:

here we see the reference to the blind appeal to promises of God AS IF GOD is locked in a box - must defend Israel no matter WHAT Jeremiah and others have warned to the contrary --

Jer 7
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 "Stand in the gate of the LORD'S house and proclaim there this word and say, 'Hear the word of the LORD, all you of Judah, who enter by these gates to worship the LORD!'"
3 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "Amend your ways and your deeds, and I will let you dwell in this place.
4 "Do not trust in deceptive words, saying, 'This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.'

The dead appeal to this "God in a box" message comes from those who in Jer 6 are said to preach "peace and safety" to those being WARNED by God.

Jer 6
12"Their houses shall be turned over to others,
Their fields and their wives together;
For I will stretch out My hand
Against the inhabitants of the land," declares the LORD.
13"For from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is greedy for gain,
And from the prophet even to the priest
Everyone deals falsely.
14"They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially,
Saying, 'Peace, peace,'
But there is no peace.

 

[steaver]

Unfortunately, the day I came to a minister to learn details about getting salvation, I did not know what the Lord had done for me. Sadly, I came only to escape eternal torment.

I had every intention of following whatever I was told when I sat down with the minister. This is despite the fact that I did not know what I was going to be told.

However, as he showed the plan of salvation from the Scriptures, I marveled at how it actually worked, and thought of how wonderful it was. I wasquite happy to accept what Christ did for me, and to follow Him.

I hope this provides a satisfactory answer to your question. Does it?

I'm not trying to be difficult or anything, but I am curious. What made you think you were going to hell in the first place that prompted you to seek a minister for answers?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

(Bob)...here we see the reference to the blind appeal to promises of God AS IF GOD is locked in a box - must defend Israel no matter WHAT Jeremiah and others have warned to the contrary --

I respectfully do not see any proclamation that they feel God is locked in a box and must defend them. I see that they were living in gross sins all week and then going to the temple to give God lip service at the appointed times. God warns them that He will destroy them just as He has destroyed others in their history if they do not repent of this. I don't see any plea to God that He must defend them no matter what.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Darron Steele]

I'm not trying to be difficult or anything, but I am curious. What made you think you were going to hell in the first place that prompted you to seek a minister for answers?

What I knew of the Bible.

I knew that the Bible indicates that not everyone goes to Heaven and many go to the less pleasant alternative.

I did not know what distinguished who goes where. I approached the minister to set an appointment to talk about doing whatever it took to avoid the less pleasant destination.

That is what it took to get me to come to Christ. When I found out what Christ did for me, I was quite happy to serve Him out of thankfulness to Him.

 

[BobRyan]

I respectfully do not see any proclamation that they feel God is locked in a box and must defend them.

That would be vs 4.

It is also what they tried in the days when Eli's sons tried that same trick with the Ark of the Lord.

I see that they were living in gross sins

Indeed but somehow they had it worked out that they would still get "heaven anyway' in terms of God blessing and protecting them.

God warns them that He will destroy them just as He has destroyed others in their history

Yep - but they bent that around and figured out a way to "ignore warnings" and so they preached "peace and safety" anyway when God said "there is no peace" and so God's Warning messages were being replaced by false "peace and safety messages".

Not unlike what we have today.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

What I knew of the Bible.

I knew that the Bible indicates that not everyone goes to Heaven and many go to the less pleasant alternative.

I did not know what distinguished who goes where. I approached the minister to set an appointment to talk about doing whatever it took to avoid the less pleasant destination.

That is what it took to get me to come to Christ. When I found out what Christ did for me, I was quite happy to serve Him out of thankfulness to Him.

Is that all you knew of the bible, that some go to heaven and some to hell? You never heard that you must have faith in Jesus' shed blood (atoning work) at Calvary? Just curious.

i'm just thinking that there must have been more of God working in your life to draw you towards salvation then just the fear of hell. I could be wrong. I had an uncle who would not submit to Christ until he fell down a flight of stairs and almost died one day. But he heard and knew all about Christ and hell but just chose "when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee" as did Felix (Acts 24:25) .

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

That would be vs 4.

Ok. I guess I don't see the "God must defend them part". I guess they were trusting that God would never leave them and God warned them that was not the case. It appears to me that they simply fell into the trappings of religilosity (sp) and was just giving God lip service while they indulged in their wickedness.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

True - but their hope was "in the temple of the Lord" as if the fact that the one true Temple - the one where God placed His own name, the one He blessed and innaugurated in such ceremony and direct communication from God -- could never be turned over to pagans.

But God was about to do that very thing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

True - but their hope was "in the temple of the Lord" as if the fact that the one true Temple - the one where God placed His own name, the one He blessed and innaugurated in such ceremony and direct communication from God -- could never be turned over to pagans.

But God was about to do that very thing.

in Christ,

Bob

It took me awhile, but I can entertain your points about the passage.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Darron Steele]

Is that all you knew of the bible, that some go to heaven and some to hell? You never heard that you must have faith in Jesus' shed blood (atoning work) at Calvary? Just curious.

Nope. I knew Jesus died for some reason having to do with sin, but did not know what. I did not know how it affected us. I did not know anything about faith.

i'm just thinking that there must have been more of God working in your life to draw you towards salvation then just the fear of hell. ......

I was a former atheist.

When I realized the existence of God, and decided Christianity was the true way; I knew that as a non-Christian with that knowledge, I was headed to eternal barbecue. I wanted to change that -- as I have already told you more than once.

So again: I did not know anything about the plan of salvation. Repeat: I did not know anything about the plan of salvation.

Again: I came to the minister to see what can be done to escape a burning eternity. Repeat: I came to the minister to see what could be done to escape a burning eternity.

Again: The only reason I came to become a follower of Christ was to escape eternal barbecue. Repeat: The only reason I came to become a follower of Christ was to escape eternal barbecue.

Again: The day I learned what Christ did for me, I wanted to serve Him out of gratitude -- but not before I learned that. Repeat: The day I learned what Christ did for me, I wanted to serve Him out of gratitude -- but not before I learned that.

I do not know why you keep asking me the same questions with different words. I have already told you what you keep asking me more than once. I admit that I am now annoyed. I hate to write like this, but I am afraid it is going to be `same old same old' if I do not. If you are not going to believe what I tell you, please quit asking me. To do otherwise is not only a waste of my time, but also yours.

 

[steaver]

I do not know why you keep asking me the same questions with different words. I have already told you what you keep asking me more than once. I admit that I am now annoyed. I hate to write like this, but I am afraid it is going to be `same old same old' if I do not. If you are not going to believe what I tell you, please quit asking me. To do otherwise is not only a waste of my time, but also yours.

My appologies brother. :tear:

I did not know I was offending you, I thought we were just having a conversation and I was just probing for understanding. Subject dropped. PLease forgive me.

God Bless!

 

[BobRyan]

Lately, I have seen some pretty nasty stuff over "Once-Saved-Always-Saved"/Eternal Security/Perseverance of the Saints.

Some people seem to believe that if salvation was not subject to being lost, it somehow makes sin okay, and lives of wanton disobedience to the Lord will follow. They then revile Christians who believe any of the above as simply wanting to revel in wanton sin -- which is usually an inaccurate accusation.

When you accuse others of being "nasty" and "reviling" are you just talking about the fact that they accept some scriptures that you reject and so you don't like their POV??

An example would be this one posted here as a summary

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1067439&postcount=88


in Christ,

Bob

 

[Darron Steele]

My appologies brother. :tear:

I did not know I was offending you, I thought we were just having a conversation and I was just probing for understanding. Subject dropped. PLease forgive me.

God Bless!

You did not offend me. You just annoyed me.

I had provided the answers to your questions, and then you asked me again. I reworded the same answers. Then you asked me again -- this time disputing me on my own conversion! I was exasperated.

It was like `What happened? No, what really happened? Okay, so what really happened?' Few people if any have not been on the receiving end of this, and after the third time, one's patience is stretched thin. Few if any people have not done this too.

You did not offend me. You only annoyed me by doing something the vast majority of people have done.

I have no objection to you continuing to ask questions, but please accept my answers after I give them, and ask different questions. I ought to know about my own conversion!

 

[Darron Steele]

When you accuse others of being "nasty" and "reviling" are you just talking about the fact that they accept some scriptures that you reject and so you don't like their POV??

An example would be this one posted here as a summary

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1067439&postcount=88


in Christ,

Bob

Before I answer, I want to clarify that just because someone disagrees with you on what Scripture teaches does not mean that they reject Scripture. What Scripture teaches I accept, but I cannot grant you the same level of authority as the written Word of God. I do not recognize anyone's claim to inerrancy on religious matters, regardless of who s/he is -- including the pope or you.

Now, for your answer: no BobRyan. As I have repeatedly indicated, this is not about the disagreement over one can lose salvation or not. The religious tenets themselves, as I have said multiple times, are not the subject of discussion.

You keep trying to divert the subject of this thread onto that. However, as the opening post makes clear, that is not it.

There is a big difference between saying someone is wrong, and saying that s/he believes what s/he does because s/he wants to live sinfully.

NOT NASTY`These passages of Scripture state that one can lose salvation. Because of this, I believe that the people who teach otherwise are wrong.'

NASTY`A belief that one cannot lose salvation is a belief that we do not need to concern ourselves with staying out of sin. Any such belief is a condoning of sin. People have these beliefs because they want to sin.'

The first type of statements goes to a disagreement over what Scripture teaches, and stops there. The second type of statements impugns moral character of people.