What's wrong with the Greek?

I would agree with Bob on this one -- dr bob that is. You are right that too many people do not know Greek but try to use it. That goes back to my insistence that men be trained for the task they are desiring to do. It does not take a Greek scholar. It takes one that is fairly familiar with the basics. After all, a proper use of the languages involves translating (which should be done for every passage that is preached), use of the technical commentaries (NICNT, WBC, etc), and enough discernment to think through the issues.

I think Carson's Exegetical Fallacies is an excellent resource and suggestion. But I don't think his point is to discourage the use of it but rather to encourage the further study of it.

I do agree that those who try to correct scholars with their menial knowledge of Greek are wrong. But there are certain nuances that are not well communicated in English though the NIV does as good a job at this as any.

Over all, I understand your point; my solution is different however from what I understand you to be saying. My solution is not, "Don't use the Greek;" My solution is "Learn the Greek."

 

I agree with Dr Bob as well as rlvaughn.

All of us here have the resource, energy and intelligence to learn how to use these computers(and presumably for the glory of God).
Most would not have a problem with Greek (apart from the discipline of study) after all, we are fluent in one of the most difficult languages ever to grace Planet Earth - English.
Personally I am thankful for the God given opportunity for my formal studies of the biblical languages and have kept myself current with self study and using the texts of the copies of the originals and I don't regret it. Here at least is one respect in which there is little likelyhood of any wool being pulled over my eyes (thank you Lord).

But, I see the point of rlvaughn "a little knowledge can be dangerous", however those who seriously blunder with the Greek probably blunder with the English as well.

HankD

 

rlvaughn, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!

But, so many good "helps" are available for people today.

Some Hebrew and Greek words and phrases just cannot be translated perfectly into English because of the "nuances" you noted. Perhaps we all ought to trust the SCHOLARS in those technincal areas.

Yet, enough "helps" have been put in English to aid anyone who desires rudimental knowledge of the original words and phrases.

I'm not disagreeing with you, for I believe a comparison of several English translations would aid a Bible student greatly. But for some special cases, more technical knowledge of the original language is needed.

Thanks for starting this interesting post.

rufus

 

Please don't misunderstand me. I am all for all the education one can muster to be a minister of God's word. On the other hand, I am beginning to think that many are over-educated for the good of ministry.

In my 56 years in ministry, I cannot ever recall explaining a word of scripture in either Greek or Hebrew. I used it all the time in my study and in sermon preparation. To the people, who lived and worked in English, I tried to make the word clear in English. Sometimes it meant paraphrasing a verse or using a different translation, but always in English.

Are we trying to demonstrate our learning? Or, are we trying to make the word clear to the people. I should hope the latter, but I fear the former.

I have not found a verse of scripture that could not be understood when the whole of scripture is examined in relation to that verse.

To use the Koine Greek, we must understand more than just the language itself. It was the common language of the times and included local meaning. We must understand the culture of the time, locality and then we might understand the Greek wording, and not just the syntax and grammar of Koine Greek.

To me, it is akin to having one's degrees displayed on the church bulletin board. What purpose other than to show one's letters? If I can not demonstrate my learning by what I say in English, my degrees on a public display will not improve my status one iota.

Cheers,

Jim

 

hey Bob, where did Paul and the other apostles go to school?

 

He that hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Yeah boy, that's difficult.

I would have to disagree here. Many false doctrines come from people not rightly dividing the word. Not because they didn't know greek. Also of note is that many of the false doctrine-starters are unsaved to begin with. Joseph Smith thought he had the "original" language (reformed egyptian).

IFB'dom? that's pretty funny. never heard anyone say that before.
I have nothing against people getting a Bible education. i am going through Bible Institute right now. but there are so many people who are "educated" that are perverting the word. Several Hyles-Anderson grads that i know are preaching and teaching false doctrines.

 

They spent three and a half years or so under the tutelage of Christ himself. I would argue that is an acceptable substitute for seminary. But they all knew Greek too ... and Hebrew ... which is a lot more than you can say for most

 

They spent three and a half years or so under the tutelage of Christ himself. I would argue that is an acceptable substitute for seminary. But they all knew Greek too ... and Hebrew ... which is a lot more than you can say for most </font>[/QUOTE]well at the risk of offending many people, i would have to say that you cannot compare seminary with Jesus' teaching.

 

I have one question... If the Greek is so important... Along with the Hebrew... Why on Gods green earth was the Bible translated into English?... Haven't all of Gods people been slighted because they didn't know the language that the Bible is written in?... Or are we really saying that the translators were really not inspired when they translated it?... Since we seem to have every translation under the sun and probably more coming in the future ... Anyone who has ever been to the translation forum knows what I'm talking about.

Then if I wanted to hear Greek I would probably go to a Greek Orthodox Church... Never been to one but since it is a Greek Church they must know Greek. To many unlearned brethren who think they know something and unless you are a Greek scholar like Brother Robert said you qualify... Try to Greekify the Bible. I'm glad you know greek but my KJV is in english and I'm sure I can discern content of scripture without running to the greek.
If anyone among the Primitive Baptist preachers said this is what the greek says... The brethren would say that nice but what does it say in English. Another one is the better manuscripts say... That is always a good one!... No let me hear the Bible in English... Unless the word is from the greek... It's Greek to me! ... Brother Glen

 

amen tyndale. besides, which greek is "the greek" anyway?

 

That was the safest risk you have ever taken. My point was somewhat facetious. They had much more education than seminary can bring. But that is no excuse for modern day preachers to be ignorant. Just because they didn't go to seminary, doesn't mean we don't need to. As preachers who have the sober duty of the ministry of the word, there is no excuse for lack of proper education and training.

 

Perhaps the question should be worded oppositely: If English is all we need, why did God have the Bible written in Greek?? See it works both ways.

But the real answer is lies in the integrity of exposition and exegesis. Those who do not know the biblical languages are constantly at the mercy of those who translated for them. For the average person in teh pew this is fine. But for the pastor, this is not.

To take an analogy in medicine, it is fine for a parent to know how to clean and dress and scrape from a bicycle accident, but when that "scrape" turns into a multiple compound fracture, don't you hope your doctor did more than take someone else's word for it? I sure do.

Nope.

[/b]yes this is exactly what we are saying.

I think that we need to maintain the integrity of the biblical languages. The Bible was around long before English and long before hte KJV, thanks to those who knew Greek and it will be around long after English and the KJV are gone should the Lord tarry, thanks to those who konw Greek. The pastor does not need to be an expert by any means, but he should have a working knowledge.