When did regeneration occur?

The order of salvation, according to some Reformed folks is:

 

Notice that you were not corrected. Very telling.

As a non-Cal I've asked this question several times over the years. I've included not only the Ethiopian eunuch, Cornelius, but also the Magi, Lydia, the Roman Centurion (Matt. 8), the woman with the issue of blood that touched the hem of Jesus' garment, Zaccheus and even the demon possessed man (Mark 5).

The Calvinist answer is "they must have been regenerated and there is no way you can prove that they weren't."




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Adam, welcome to the BB.

Regeneration can occur at any moment the Holy Spirit chooses. Regeneration is never apart from the means of salvation, which is the gospel message. God calls His elect in time through the preaching of the gospel. The Holy Spirit illumines and regenerates the sinner. The sinner then believes through faith. Justification and sanctification follow. All of this happens nearly instantaneously. There was no need for the Ethiopian Eunuch or Cornelius to be regenerated far in advance of their hearing the gospel.

For a more thorough explanation, take a look at this resource: The Ordo Salutis

 

What do you mean by "before"? A week before? A month? See my previous post. Yes. The sinner must be regenerated before justification, but the work of the Holy Spirit is (for all practical purposes) instantaneous.

 

I don't know. JohnDeereFan, Calvinist member here on BB, walked the aisle many times, prayed the prayers, etc. yet said he wasn't born again that whole time. Now, with these actions he was seeking God, right? He was attending church, reading the Bible, listening to sermons, responding to invitations, and asking Jesus to come into his heart.

I would characterize that as seeking God.

So when was he regenerated?





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I never used the word "before". But let's stipulate that was my meaning.

The Magi sought Jesus and traveled far to see him. If they were regenerated they must have been regenerated before they started their search, right?





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The reason we run into difficulty understanding the behavior of people apparently "seeking" God is found in the definition of the term, "God". They are not seeking the God of the Bible - the True and Living God. They are seeking idols. They are seeking a god of their own imagination/likeness/making.

In general, were the Pharisees seeking the living God? Jesus said they don't know Him because they don't know the Father.

 

Wow, Calvinists manufacture definitions to shoehorn their theology, making it force fit into situations.

If attending church, reading the Bible, praying, and responding to invitations to believe in Jesus is NOT seeking God, but rather is idolatry, you guys have got big problems with credibility.

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YES!

Did You Love the Light or the Darkness?

 

"I turned tail and ran?"

Hilarious.

Your assertion that the Magi had already heard the Gospel and were regenerated and then your challenge that I prove they weren't regenerated pretty much killed any further discussion. No one can prove a negative. The burden of proof was on you and you failed.

Just another example of forcing the facts to conform to your theology.

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Looking at the chart, and checking back on Romans 10:14-15, coult the Ethiopian eunuch have gleaned the Gospel call from reading Isaiah?

Or maybe I should ask, is that same order applicable to the Old Testament saints?

Edited to add: I know I quoted Brian for the chart, but anyone feel free to respond.

 

Yes. I would say so. The Spirit works through the Word, and we flawed humans get to help, as well.

Also, God's providence is demonstrated in the story of the Ethiopian. He calls His elect by causing them to be born, live, travel, etc., in certain places where He brings them the gospel. He has it covered from start to finish.

 

Are there any people sitting in pews in Evangelical churches every Sunday morning who aren't Christians?

 

Sure it is. Insults fly when you reach a dead end in your arguments. We understand.

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Sure.

And what about your new strawman argument?

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