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Featured When does a Christian stop sinning?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Oct 2, 2020.

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  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Many have argued against perfection, but yet everyone knows that mans carnal imperfection or sin will not be let into heaven. Christ Himself says to be ye perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect.

    Matthew 5:48
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    and go and sin no more...
    John 8:11
    She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

    So how is this 'Gordian Knot' to be resolved?
     
    #1 Hobie, Oct 2, 2020
  2. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    When God removes this verse from the scripture:

    If we say we have no sin,
    we deceive ourselves,
    and the truth is not in us.
    1 John 1:8
     
    #2 SGO, Oct 2, 2020
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    When he dies.
     
    #3 Reynolds, Oct 2, 2020
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  4. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Better, and knot funny.
     
    #4 SGO, Oct 2, 2020
  5. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Yet we have this..
    Revelation 21:27 King James Version (KJV)
    27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
     
    #5 Hobie, Oct 3, 2020
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Its only a knot if you misinterpret it.
     
    #6 Revmitchell, Oct 3, 2020
  7. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Is that for now?
    Isn't it after the books are opened?

    And I saw the dead,
    small and great,
    stand before God;
    and the books were opened
    and another book was opened,
    which is the book of life:
    and the dead were judged out of those things
    which were written in the books,
    according to their works.
    Revelation 20:12


    You and I are in that group (small and great)
    I'm the small one.

    Our names are also in the book of life
    only because we trust in what Jesus did for us.

    And yes, we will also be judged but will not suffer Hell.

    For other foundation can no man lay
    than that is laid,
    which is Jesus Christ.
    Now if any man build upon this foundation
    gold, silver, precious stones,
    wood, hay, stubble;
    Every man's work shall be made manifest:
    for the day shall declare it,
    because it shall be revealed by fire;
    and the fire shall try every man's work
    of what sort it is.
    If any man's work abide
    which he hath built thereupon,
    he shall receive a reward.
    If any man's work shall be burned,
    he shall suffer loss:
    but he himself shall be saved;
    yet so as by fire.
    1 Corinthians 3:11-15
     
    #7 SGO, Oct 3, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  8. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Some want it defined or the state described, claiming ignorance. So, what is perfection for man? Perfection is back to the state that Adam was created, without sin yet with free will choice, the perfection which Jesus as flesh has shown us.

    It is manifest in the lives of all who are truly connected with Christ, doers of the Word, not just hearers.

    James 1:22
    But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
    Christ talks of overcoming, and that's not talking about while were in heaven.
    Revelation 3:21 King James Version (KJV)
    21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    And we have this from Christ our example..
    Philippians 2:5-8 King James Version (KJV)
    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    And it wasn't easy...
    Hebrews 5:7-8 King James Version (KJV)
    7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
    8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

    And it will be before He comes...
    Revelation 22:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
    10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
    11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
    12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
     
    #8 Hobie, Oct 3, 2020
  9. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    I really don't know about you, but as for me I still sin a great deal, less than before maybe but it's ONLY because Jesus died on the cross, and shed His blood for the sin of the world, and came back from the dead, that I will be saved. If you want to rely on your own works then I think you may have a little problemo.

    You can only be perfect because His righteousness is imputed to you, right?
    Or, are you relying on yourself to overcome?

    He does chastise His children but He won't send them to Hell. Are you very worried about ending up there?

    If not, please tell me a little about what you think the 1 Corinthians 3 verses quoted above mean to you. Thank you.
     
    #9 SGO, Oct 3, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Perfect = mature .
     
    #10 Barry Johnson, Oct 4, 2020
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    At the Rapture
     
    #11 Salty, Oct 4, 2020
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  12. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So do you feel those who sin and continue in iniquity will be fine when Christ comes. Keep in mind what Christ said...

    Matthew 13:41
    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

    The belief of Sanctification by Faith has been a Christian teaching held since the Reformers, why are many giving it up.

    As for 1 Corinthians 3, how do you read the verse 17.. 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
     
    #12 Hobie, Oct 5, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  13. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Dear Hobie,

    I wish you would have explained your solution to the "gordian knot" mentioned in your first post. Am I wrong (as is often the case) in thinking you had one in mind?

    Today I read Romans 6:11-13 where a solution is stated,

    Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
    but alive unto God
    through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
    that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
    Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
    but yield yourselves unto God,
    as those that are alive from the dead,
    and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."

    Oh, but I sure am not there yet for when I want to sin, I do, and very seldom ask God for help.
    I am trying to be honest, even this little is somewhat painful.

    Perhaps you are much further along in the solution.

    No answer to what you think the 1 Corinthians passage I quoted means, only a counter question.
     
    #13 SGO, Oct 5, 2020
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When we die, or else when we are glorified!
     
    #14 Yeshua1, Oct 5, 2020
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  15. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Is this one wrong, Hobie?
     
    #15 SGO, Oct 5, 2020
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Sorry ,not sure what you mean ?
     
    #16 Barry Johnson, Oct 5, 2020
  17. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    You said more or less that "perfect" equalled "mature."

    I asked Hobie if he thought that statement was wrong.
     
    #17 SGO, Oct 5, 2020
  18. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Basically the foundation is Christ, but what are the results. I think you hit that with the verses above. I would add...
    John 17:23 King James Version (KJV)
    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    Romans 8:10 King James Version (KJV)
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    1 John 3:24 King James Version (KJV)
    24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
     
    #18 Hobie, Oct 7, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  19. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for answering.
    Doesn't it also mean that all His children will be with Him in the future but that some will suffer loss?
     
    #19 SGO, Oct 7, 2020
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  20. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Some Christians will stay in the bondage of sin and full of iniquity and Christ is clear on what will happen...

    Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Luke 13:26-28 King James Version (KJV)
    26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
    27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
    28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
     
    #20 Hobie, Oct 11, 2020
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