When is the Day of God's Wrath?

Friends,
The following challenges the prevailing view of the time for God's wrath:

WHAT DETERMINES GOD’S DAY OF JUDGMENT AND WRATH?
Romans 2:4-5 Rev.6:16-17 Rev.14:10-12


When is God’s “Day of Wrath”? Rom.2:5; Rev.6:17. Should we follow the teaching that God’s wrath begins when He again deals with Israel at the Endtime? Or does His wrath (orgay) follow the “end of days” with Christ taking vengeance in one day on all who reject the Gospel”? 2 Thess.1:10. Is God’s wrath a 7-year process or a one day affair?


The latter view was the belief of early Church Fathers. But Plato taught that God is too exalted to be affected by “perturbations of anger” (thumos). This led to translating thumos (anger) as "wrath" and gave rise to the belief that, to escape His Plagues of so-called "wrath", Christians will be removed from earth during the Endtime of great tribulation and wrath!


This tradition of the great difference between anger and wrath (thus banning any reference to a God of anger) has filtered down thru most Bibles due to Plato’s philosophy as per “The Dictionary of the Apostolic Church”, published in 1917, by T. Clark. God’s “makro-thumos” (long-anger) was translated as “long-suffering”. But to avoid translating “thumos” as “anger”, it was usually translated as “wrath”!

Unfortunately this removed the difference! Thumos and orgay became synonyms instead of antonyms after the “vain tradition” of Plato and Church Fathers! Col.2:8.

As a result, most Christians believe “virtually no difference exists between God’s anger and wrath”! Paul wrote: “On the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, He will render to every man according to their deeds…eternal life to those who know His long-anger (makro-thumia) leads to repentance but indignation (thumos) and wrath (orgay; KJV) to the unrighteous”!! Rom.2:4-5,8.


The NASB inverts thumos and orgay with “wrath and indignation” coming on the wicked so as to ostensibly avoid describing God as “angry”. Because of this variance in Rom.2:8, the meanings changed from antonyms to synonyms! The prevailing view today promises that we must be removed from earth to escape the Plagues of God’s so-called “wrath during the great tribulation”!! God’s long-anger (makro-thumos) continues to the Day of Wrath according to Rom.2:4-5!!!

Only then do His “anger and wrath mix” together. “Great earthquakes destroy earth’s mountains and cities and move islands out of place. Christ comes to tread the winepress in anger and wrath”. Blood reaches the horses’ bridles on that Day. Most Bibles mix God’s “wrath (orgay) with thumos” instead of having His “anger (thumos) mix with orgay”! Rev.14:10.


Because of Plato’s “vain tradition” of God’s aloofness, untouched by anger, translators inverted and inadvertently made anger and wrath mean the same thing. They effectively fail to show the difference they intended to show! Translating thumos as “wrath” made the 7 Last Plagues “complete God’s wrath” instead of “completing His anger”!! Then it is argued being “kept from God’s wrath” means the Rapture must precede the Tribulation!!! Rev.15:1; 16:1.


This prevailing view results from twisting thumos to mean “wrath” rather than “anger”. In the text leading up to God’s Hour of Judgment on the Day of Wrath, Rev.14:7; Rom.2:5, most Bibles switch the words so that God’s wrath (thumos) mixes full strength in His Cup of Anger/Indignation (orgay)! Rev.14:10. Translations assume the 7 Plagues prematurely “complete God’s wrath”. They terminate God’s long-anger (patience) seven years too soon!


In discussions on the baptistboard.com, I was branded as presumptuous and guilty of “much ado about nothing”, of being an “error-schmerror”, as not “seeing the forest for the trees” or of making the KJV translators a “bunch of retards”. One wrote: “Scripture says God’s anger `burned’ against certain nations, so wrath must be the brand of hot dogs he makes out of them”. Another: “Error finders and artists should give us an up-to-date series of `Looney Tunes’"! What about this: “I'm 50% Labrador retriever. I'll prove it. Get me a Labrador and I'll retrieve it. Have you got a Labrador? Then Shaddup”!

“Why did KJV translators not once render thumos as “anger”? What of twisting "thumos" to mean “wrath” when it stands alone after first being combined with orgay? We see the two words inverted in Rev.14:10 to make thumos mean "wrath"! Then with "thumos" standing ALONE in the next 4 instances, it is assumed that thumos means "wrath"!!! Rev.14:19; Rev.15:1,7; Rev.16:1.


But, finally (and this is utterly inconsistent) when used again with orgay, the KJV translated "thumos" as less than wrath (fierceness) when it is combined again with "orgay"! They got it right at last after changing thumos to mean "wrath". It would have made no sense to combine "wrath with wrath"!!! Rev.16:19; Rev.19:15.


Why has the Holy Spirit not revealed that God's "long-anger" (makro-thumia and mega-thumia"; Rev.14:19), finally merge with His wrath on the Day of Wrath to destroy all who refuse to repent? Yet He allows Israel en masse to “mourn, beg to escape and be kept alive”. Matt.24:30; Luke 21:36; 17:30-33; Rom.11:25-27.


If translators had rendered thumos as anger instead of wrath, Strong’s Concordance would not have made them synonymous! By inverting these words, even in Eph.4:31 and Col.3:8 with respect to us, we are now infected by a NEW "tradition" that eliminates the difference between anger and wrath but, when both words are combined, wrath becomes “anger” and anger becomes “wrath”!

The "switch" blurs God’s wrath that refers ONLY to the “horrors” of Hell.

Eternal torment comes when armies gather to the plains of Armageddon. After the Plagues “exhaust God's thumos" (The New Jerusalem Bible), none of the wicked will escape. Rev.6:16-17; Rev.16:17-21. The KJV never rendered #2372 as “anger”. Even with humans who ARE subject to anger, orgay was translated as “anger” and thumos as “wrath” in Eph.4:31and Col.3:8. The meanings are twisted in the text on Hell. Rev.14:10-12.


Bound by tradition and the philosophy of Platonism, they stuck with human reasoning lest they demean the character of God as subject to the human emotion of anger. But they did so at the cost of making both words mean virtually the same thing. God's long-anger allows men to repent for 1900 years and then mixes with wrath to "destroy the destroyers of earth" in one day, the last day!


Thumos "mixes with orgay when God takes vengeance on the Day Christ comes in flaming fire against those who refuse the Gospel! He raises up and gathers the Elect; on one of the days immediately after the great tribulation; at the (kairos) “time appointed by the 7th Trumpet"!! 2 Thess.1:7-10; Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:29-31; Rev.6:16-17; Rev.11:18; Rev.16:19-21; Rev.19:15-21.


Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

When does God's Wrath Come?

ED, my dear friend,

To which part of the dual question do you answer "Yes"? Is the time
appointed one of 7 years or is it one of a "single 12-hour-day"?? Why
do you expand the appointed time to a period of a week, month, year
and to a thousand years unless it serves your purpose to ignore the only reference to a single "appointed time" in Revelation???

Once again, you give no scripture at all to dispute the "appointed time"
of God's wrath comes only at the 7th Trumpet! You give no explanation as to when the 7th Trumpet occurs!! The "appointed time" for Resurrection, Rewards and Retribuation, given in the Book of Revelation, is at the 7th TRUMPET!!! Rev.11:18.

The word "kairos" pinpoints the 7th Trumpet as the time to resurrect the "dead to be judged, the time to reward the prophets and saints and all who fear God" and ON THE SAME DAY, pinpoints the HOUR in which the "armies who have destroyed a third of mankind are also destroyed"!

Ed, I prefer a more direct approach to a truth of Scripture rather than
a nuanced approach that seeks subtle differences in meanings and then generalizes the truth instead getting to the specific point in question!!

You have gone so far in your nuances, without any retraction, to argue Jesus meant "He will send the angels and gather the elect from earth to heaven in the days BEFORE the great tribulation" instead of sending the angels to gather them out of the heavenS AFTER the tribulation"!!! Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:31.

There is no way I can continue a discourse with such loose handling of
the English, let alone the failure to quote any scripture to support a "gathering of the elect BEFORE the tribulation"! I submit your mishandling of the "appointed kairos-time when God brings the souls of all who sleep in Jesus WITH Him at His Presence"...denies it will occur at the Last Trump of I Cor.15:52 and Matt.24:31!! The "souls of those who die in the Lord" include Tribulation Martyrs!!! I Thess.4:13-14; Rev.14:13.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

When is God's Day of Wrath?

Ed Edwards,

You give a whole lot of Scripture; but not a single verse that says
Daniel's 70th Seven is a period of God's wrath! The first half of that
period is a time of peace!! It is during this time of peace that nations
come against Jerusalem and are actually destroyed...but not Israel!!!

You conclude with this Quote:
___________________________________________________________

"The rapture/resurrection will occur without previous notice and before
the Tribulation period (wrath).
___________________________________________________________

You have failed to dispute the word of truth that "God's wrath comes
at the 7th Trumpet"! Not even you advocates the 7th Trumpet starts the
70th Week of Daniel's prophecy!! Your case has no grounds for argument
from any Scripture ... or you would have disputed the "appointed time"
for Resurrection, Rewards and Retribution occurs at the 7th Trumpet which sounds when "chronos-time shall be no longer and when God's
mystery WAS finished" (Rev.10:6-7; aorist indicative; past tense)!!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :applause:

 

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Ed, Thanks for admitting you have not proved a 7-Year Period of Wrath.

I agree with your remarks about the time of Daniel's 70th Seven!

But you ignore that "God's wrath occurs as of the 7th Trumpet"!!

The Prophetic 1260 Days of Daniel's 70th Seven are "finished in the
days" before the 7th Trumpet sounds that "God's wrath has come"!!! Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:18.

"Chronos-Time and God's mystery are finished" before the 7th Trumpet sounds. Rev.10:6-7. God's Day of wrath (to destroy all the wicked) therefore begins during "one of the days after the great tribulation" ends ... just as Jesus said. Mark 13:24; Matt.24:29.

The Apostle Paul teaches that "God's forbearance (endurance) and
His longsuffering (long-anger; Greek) continue until the DAY of His
Wrath". Rom.2:4-5. Only the 7 last Plagues "complete His long-suffering"!
Rev.15:1; Aorist Indicative; Past Tense!! Beast-Worshipers can repent; but those who gather to Armageddon refuse to repent during the 6th Trumpet and 4th and 5th Plagues and continue to blaspheme God after the very last Plague implodes and their tongues rot and knees buckle
while standing on their feet!!! Rev.16:21; Zech.14:12.

God's wrath occurs at the 7th Trumpet after the last Plague empties because "no one can enter the temple until the 7th Vial empties its Plague (Rev.15:8) and because the Day of Grace continues UNTIL the Day of
Wrath; until men are no longer allowed to "treasure up wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of God's righteous judgment". Rom.2:4-5,8.

Trib-Saints will be "kept from the Hour of Trial coming on all mankind over
all the face of all the earth". That promise of Jesus even applies to those
who "mourn and beg to escape so they may stand before the Son of Man" after He appears with ALL the Saints ... including the two Witnesses who rise up to heaven just before the 7th Trumpet sounds and who will be judged and rewarded at the 7th Trumpet ... after time shall be no longer". Luke 21:25-36; Rev.3:10-12; Rev.10:6-7 (Dan.12:7-11); Rev.11:18.

For the 7th Trumpet is the "appointed (kairos) time" for our Resurrection, our Rewards and Retribution on all who "refuse to believe ON THAT DAY
of Vengeance". 2 Thess.1:7-10.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :thumbs: