When it is not the Church of Christ

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Don't let a root of bitterness start growing in your heart, Paul advised. Like all the Laws of God, I am also a transgressor of this one. I pray God for that forgivenes He through Jesus Christ had given me already, for having sinned against his Law. And the bitterness went away; and I found solace, in these words of our Lord Jesus, "Where two or three are gathered together, there I shall be (there I am) in their midst." "Behold, I am with you, always!"

Then every time I see on TV those churches packed with thousands, I am comforted, Don't worry, that cannot be the Body of Christ's Own.

Why, would you, not agree?

 

[D28guy]

Gerhard,

"Then every time I see on TV those churches packed with thousands, I am comforted, Don't worry, that cannot be the Body of Christ's Own."

Why would you say that a church with thousands of members can not be part of the body of Christ?

2 or 3 and Christ is in the midst. 15 or 20, and Christ is there in the midst. 200-300 and Christ is in the midst. Thousands, and Christ is in the midst.

I am not sure I am understanding what is the point you are getting at.

Could you elaborate?

God bless,

Mike

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

Although biblically churches should be small, it seems harsh to say a church of thousands is not part of the Body of Christ.

 

[Samuel Owen]

Our Lord told us that Christianity, was not going to be the most popular thing. When you see those Churches of Hundreds/Thousands, they are mostly seeker friendly Churches. Not prone to strong Gospel, or corrective preaching, and teaching. They are mostly for those who have itching ears, but I would not go so far as to say, some there may not be truly of the body of Christ. You could probably get them all in your car though.

 

[sag38]

Although biblically churches should be small, it seems harsh to say a church of thousands is not part of the Body of Christ.

Could you explain this comment "biblically"? Biblically the first church grew from 120 to 3120 in one day. A short time later 5,000 were added. Seems the first church was over 8,000 strong in just a short period of time.

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

Ok - have to admit maybe I was a little ignorant with that comment. I was under the impression that Paul believed churches should ideally have no more than 12 members. I can't remember where this verse is though...guess I need to do more research.

I don't think its a bad thing to have over 12 members though. But sometimes small fellowships of 100 or less regulars can be the most Christ-like.

 

[sag38]

And, I will have to concede that those 8000+ in the first chrurch did not have a mega church building to worship in.

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

Interesting thing is, in the days during Jesus life and in the immediate years after his resurrection, the meetings took place in the open air and this helped people to hear the message. You couldn't do that these days in most countries because there would be people disrupting it, and not many people would necessarily want to listen anyway.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Many are called; few are chosen.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Although biblically churches should be small, it seems harsh to say a church of thousands is not part of the Body of Christ.

Could you explain this comment "biblically"? Biblically the first church grew from 120 to 3120 in one day. A short time later 5,000 were added. Seems the first church was over 8,000 strong in just a short period of time.

GE

'Biblically' -- that was (strictly) the once for all fulfilment of the Prophetic Feast of Shavuot / Pentecost. An 'Apostolic' privilege and prerogative. It is arrogance to pretend the gift of that occasion that of any and all other Christians. Here's another certain indicator of the (few) true Christians: Lowliness of heart.

 

[donnA]

Although biblically churches should be small, it seems harsh to say a church of thousands is not part of the Body of Christ.

Could you explain this comment "biblically"? Biblically the first church grew from 120 to 3120 in one day. A short time later 5,000 were added. Seems the first church was over 8,000 strong in just a short period of time.

Thats THE church, not the local individual church. Most of the people saved that day weren't from Jerusalem, they would not have been a part of the local church.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Donna A, Read post 10.

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

GE

'Biblically' -- that was (strictly) the once for all fulfilment of the Prophetic Feast of Shavuot / Pentecost. An 'Apostolic' privilege and prerogative. It is arrogance to pretend the gift of that occasion that of any and all other Christians. Here's another certain indicator of the (few) true Christians: Lowliness of heart.

Thanks for the explanation, but I don't believe I am arrogant, I should have just got my facts right.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I didn't say or mean you, were arrogant. I say and I mean the so called 'church' of today, who claim all those Apostolic gifts of the Holy Spirit, is arrogant, haughty and hypocritical. It marks the false church; points it out; no one need doubt, these latter day saints who speak in tongues and heals all the nation and all nations, is not the Church of of the Body of Christ's own.

The acid test shall be: Let them refuse to take money or favours, and see them survive one month!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I have found a few other indicators of the true Church of Jesus Christ. See if you recognise some:
Age:
22 ... trying to grow in my faith. Interests: church, soccer, friends, computer games, internet, music, countryside Home Church; Statement of Salvation:Through faith in Jesus Christ!
God bless you, young man! Keep it up!

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

Hmmm. I once attended a church quite frequently which was very much into speaking in tongues and 'praying for the nations' etc. Nothing wrong with that in theory but I did feel there was a culture of arrogance, and maybe having priorities wrong i.e. speaking in tongues seemed more important to them than general worship. They seemed a bit 'cliquey' as well.

I'm not sure I could say they were not true Christians, but perhaps some of them were not the 'super christians' they thought they were.

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

I have found a few other indicators of the true Church of Jesus Christ. See if you recognise some:
Age:
22 ... trying to grow in my faith. Interests: church, soccer, friends, computer games, internet, music, countryside Home Church; Statement of Salvation:Through faith in Jesus Christ!
God bless you, young man! Keep it up!

Thanks, that's vey encouraging. I hope I don't become arrogant now though

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Not until one - with the years - is demolished and mauled, shamed and humiliated, has become a zero, will he find contentment in the few and poor things of life. Then he has become rich.

 

[Born_in_Crewe]

I think I understand what you mean. The constant need for status, importance and wealth actually makes people discontent.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

What makes me discontent is one hardly hear Scripture! Much about dogma (rather than 'doctrine'). Dogma is what qualifies one elligible to pride himself of this or that movements' name. For example, you must be baptise by immersion to be a baptist; or, you must be baptised by sprinkling to be Presbiterian; or you must be baptised with holy water in order to be a Roman Catholic; you must have spoken in tongues to be a whatsovever - there are about as many 'denominations' as there are tongues. That is dogma, and a dogma is further distinguished by, one, the fact its adherents are counted in the millions, two, nothing can match its profitability. The true church is a properous church both in numbers and Dollars. You need solid dogma for that, to the exclusion of sound doctrine with its sorting out and diminishing of numbers and Dollars.