When you die...

[tinytim]

It has been suggested that I may get more debate here than on the Baptist only section... so here goes....

I've got 2 fairly easy questions, well the first one will be easy, but the second one may get some debate.... also, explain why you believe this way.

1) If you died today would you go to Heaven? Why?

2) If you died ten years from now will you go to Heaven? Why?

 

[Claudia_T]

Heb:3:15: While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.


If you are right with God today, you are ready if Christ should come today.

Divine grace must be received daily, or no man will stay converted.

1Cor:15:31: I die daily.

You must have a vital connection with Christ. Like the Manna, fresh always.



Luke 12
35: Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36: And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37: Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38: And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39: And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40: Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.


Same thing applies to 10 years from now.

 

[BobRyan]

1. If you are saved today and you die today then in 1Thess 4 you will be raised along with the "dead in Christ" and THUS you shall ever be WITH the Lord (1Thess 4) according to the promise of Christ "I will come again and receive you unto Myself in order that where I am there you may be also" -- in heaven in His Father's house.

2. If you continue in this life instead of dying and you "continue firm until the end" ten years from today - then the same will hold true.

If you give up and lose heart -- if you turn away from this salvation then you will experience the Matt 18 result predicted by Christ - forgiveness revoked -- as Christ said "So shall my father do to each one of you IF..."

In Christ,

Bob

 

[tinytim]

Here is my answers....

Yes... because of what Christ did

Yes.. .because of what Christ did

You see when you fully trust Christ for your salvation, you can know your destiny...

But sadly, when you trust your own works.... yep, you might end up in Hell....

Actually, if you trust yourself to get to Heaven, you will go to Hell..

So If you trust Christ for your salvation.. you go to Heaven when you die..
If not, you go to Hell...

Salvation can't get any plainer than that.

 

[BobRyan]

Is this where we quote all the NT texts on perseverance to be sure we ignore them?

To put it another way when we SEE in scripture how God's Word links perseverance and salvation - do we edit it out? Do we add "and of course the Bible can't really mean that" each time we read it? Or do we INCLUDE this as a part of what CHRIST has done in the gospel by sovereignly making BOTH free will AND the New Birth, New Walk with Christ?

 

[Janosik]

Here is my answers....

Yes... because of what Christ did

Yes.. .because of what Christ did

You see when you fully trust Christ for your salvation, you can know your destiny...

But sadly, when you trust your own works.... yep, you might end up in Hell....

Actually, if you trust yourself to get to Heaven, you will go to Hell..

So If you trust Christ for your salvation.. you go to Heaven when you die..
If not, you go to Hell...

Salvation can't get any plainer than that.

So let's run a scenario when you die:

Jesus: You said you trust me; I gave you talents; where is the interest?
You: Hm. I only trust you there is no interest.

Now, tell me what's going to happen?

 

[rbell]

We're saved through grace by faith, not of works.

Pesky little book, that Ephesians.

 

[LeBuick]

Could the gift be "eternal" or "everlasting" if there was a way for it to end? I could not imagine an all knowing, merciful God who would accept me today, reject me tomorrow then take me back the day after. This says his mercy depends on me. My Gods mercy is in spite of me... So is my hope...

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Shiloh]

The Security of the Believer is written about all the way through the Word of God. Only those on here who I believe are deliberately trying to confuse young Christians or unsaved folks are against. The very verses in Heb. that they keep using show them how wrong they are, Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

One could write all day about the security of the believer but that wouldn't change the minds of the "few" on here that are bent on distorting truth. Tim, if one doesn't believe that Christ alone can atone for our sins but needs the devils help and doesn't believe in a literal hell and has the moon and stars doing all kind of wierd things while they wait for the Lord to return....why would they believe in a Eternal Salvation by Grace through Faith plus nothing. (Just a side note, wouldn't you like to come home from work and find your computer smoking and the stove cold.)

 

[Claudia_T]

Shiloh,

You are just about the rudest person I have ever seen. Not to mention "factually challenged" and obsessed with the SDAs. Like Bob said, where did they dig you up from anyway? Its like ever since you got here you just are obsessed with following me around making your retarded remarks instead of just presenting your views on any given subject.

Are you capable of just presenting your views without spewing your venom? I suppose that you imagine yourself to be impressing everybody by your uncouth remarks?

I guess thats what I get though for clicking on the "Vew Post" where I have you on ignore.

I have really tried to either be kind to you in spite of your extremely crude behavior and/or just put you on ignore, but for heaven's sake woman/man (not sure on that) would you please get it together and acquire some manners?

*And now back to our regularly scheduled program (sorry about that everyone but sometimes you just gotta do things like this)

Claudia

 

[BobRyan]

Could the gift be "eternal" or "everlasting" if there was a way for it to end? I could not imagine an all knowing, merciful God who would accept me today, reject me tomorrow .

#1. How do you read the "forgiveness revoked" story of Matt 18 ending with "So shall my Father do to each one of you if you do not forgiven your brother from your heart"??

#2. How do you read the "cast out of the vine of Christ" message in John 15 AND in Romans 11 that has the instruction "so you too should fear - for if He did not spare them NEITHER will He spare you"??

And what "should" we be doing with all those NT texts connecting salvation and perseverance? (soon to be quoted here since no one is digging into that point)

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

Could the gift be "eternal" or "everlasting" if there was a way for it to end? I could not imagine an all knowing, merciful God who would accept me today, reject me tomorrow then take me back the day after. This says his mercy depends on me. My Gods mercy is in spite of me... So is my hope...

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well in Revelation it says this:

1: And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3: Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Whenever Jesus talks about coming as a thief it is always in the context of you being a Christian but then not keeping on and Him coming and assigning you a portion with the hypocrites.

Meaning you will be lost. And there are many places in Revelation that talk like that.

I mean, its talking here about blotting our names out of the Book of Life!


and it says:
3: Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


so its not as if they never had salvation to start with. I dont see how anybody could ever read the Bible and come away with this notion that you cannot lose your salvation!

Claudia

 

[hillclimber1]

The Security of the Believer is written about all the way through the Word of God. Only those on here who I believe are deliberately trying to confuse young Christians or unsaved folks are against. The very verses in Heb. that they keep using show them how wrong they are, Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

One could write all day about the security of the believer but that wouldn't change the minds of the "few" on here that are bent on distorting truth. Tim, if one doesn't believe that Christ alone can atone for our sins but needs the devils help and doesn't believe in a literal hell and has the moon and stars doing all kind of wierd things while they wait for the Lord to return....why would they believe in a Eternal Salvation by Grace through Faith plus nothing. (Just a side note, wouldn't you like to come home from work and find your computer smoking and the stove cold.)

Very good post Shiloh. We are saved by Grace, and that salvation is maintained by Grace. The Word of God is replete with it.

 

[hillclimber1]

Shiloh,

You are just about the rudest person I have ever seen. Not to mention "factually challenged" and obsessed with the SDAs. Like Bob said, where did they dig you up from anyway? Its like ever since you got here you just are obsessed with following me around making your retarded remarks instead of just presenting your views on any given subject.

Are you capable of just presenting your views without spewing your venom? I suppose that you imagine yourself to be impressing everybody by your uncouth remarks?

I guess thats what I get though for clicking on the "Vew Post" where I have you on ignore.

I have really tried to either be kind to you in spite of your extremely crude behavior and/or just put you on ignore, but for heaven's sake woman/man (not sure on that) would you please get it together and acquire some manners?

*And now back to our regularly scheduled program (sorry about that everyone but sometimes you just gotta do things like this)

Claudia

What in the world are you talking about?

 

[Claudia_T]

I wasnt talking to you.

 

[Claudia_T]

I find it absolutely amazing that somebody could take these verses and claim they show that we are eternally secure no matter what we do.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.


You have to be able to look at structure of the sentence... "it is impossible... if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance..."

I cant conceive that someone would misconstrue this to somehow mean that it is impossible for someone to fall away.

 

[tinytim]

I wasnt talking to you.

Then it should have been in a PM. :smilewinkgrin:

Since I don't know alot about SDAs, (and I am sure they are not the only ones here) I would like to ask a question from our SDA friends...

JUst a simple yes or no.

Do you believe you have to be good in order to go to Heaven?

I am asking that out of educational purposes more than anything else. (educating me) BTW, is there a link anywhere that describes your beliefs..
I would like to know what you believe upfront before I debate you.

I am trusting Christ's goodness to get to Heaven, not mine. That is the Baptist in me. :wavey: :godisgood:

 

[tinytim]

I find it absolutely amazing that somebody could take these verses and claim they show that we are eternally secure no matter what we do.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.


You have to be able to look at structure of the sentence... "it is impossible... if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance..."

I cant conceive that someone would misconstrue this to somehow mean that it is impossible for someone to fall away.

If I believed that those verses taught that you can fall away, then I would have to believe that once a person falls away, they are destined for Hell, and can never come back....

"it is impossible...if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance"

Says that once we fall away, there is no hope.... so you better get it right the first time.

 

[Claudia_T]

Then it should have been in a PM. :smilewinkgrin:

That would be fine if what they continually say were in a PM. The then there is the "are they resonable" factor, if so, I would talk to them in a PM. Frankly I am tired of them calling me an "idiot" and of all the other remarks they have made about me. At any rate, I consider that to be overwith (hopefully) and so I would like to drop it now.

 

[Claudia_T]

If I believed that those verses taught that you can fall away, then I would have to believe that once a person falls away, they are destined for Hell, and can never come back....

"it is impossible...if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance"

Says that once we fall away, there is no hope.... so you better get it right the first time.

Okay lets do this one then about "falling away"

Lk:8:13: They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

They hear the gospel, they receive the word with joy, but they fall away.

they have also "believed" it says.


So how can you think that once you believe you cannot fall away from that?

they have "no root" it says yet they "believe" for awhile.