TaliOrlando
New Member
Where did Evil or Sin start?? I know that Satan rebelled agaisnt GOD but does the Bible state what temped Satan to do so..
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Where did Evil or Sin start??
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: That’s no answer. Pride is the results of an intent. Where did the intent come from?
Ezekiel 28:15 says that when Lucifer was created that he was blameless until evil was found in him.
The bible also says that he became filled with pride because of his "beauty". (verse 17 of the same passage)
It's my belief that God did not create sin or evil or create Lucifer to be evil. God, of course, knew the outcome of Lucifer being created, but He did not create him evil.
Evil began in the heart of satan.
Here's a great site that asks questions and refers you to scripture. I enjoyed reading through it and will probably make a hard copy of it.
http://mcdonaldroad.org/bible/study/lucifer.htm
The bible also says that he became filled with pride because of his "beauty". (verse 17 of the same passage)
It's my belief that God did not create sin or evil or create Lucifer to be evil. God, of course, knew the outcome of Lucifer being created, but He did not create him evil.
Evil began in the heart of satan.
Here's a great site that asks questions and refers you to scripture. I enjoyed reading through it and will probably make a hard copy of it.
http://mcdonaldroad.org/bible/study/lucifer.htm
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: What was the cause of it? I am asking what necessitated the action of pride? For every event there of necessity must be a cause, would you not agree?
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
[NOTE: I underlined HP's words.]
Ezekiel 28:17 "Your heart was filled with pride because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of splendor...."
He saw himself as more worthy to be God than God, Himself.....why? Ezekiel 28 says because of his wealth, beauty, spendor....
In a nut shell, satan had a choice....to be a majestic being bringing glory to God through his splendor (that God gave him in the first place) or to exploit his splendor to vainly try to exalt himself above God.
The sin of pride came from his desire, his choice, to exalt himself. It came from within him.
The sin was pride.
The cause was desiring splendor for splendor's sake and exploiting the power that comes with splendor (he was able to convince one-third of the angels to rebel against God along with him.)
I really can't break it down any further than that.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I think you did an excellent job. Now let me ask you a question. If he could not have avoided being prideful, due to his inherited wealth, beauty and splendor, could sin even have been possible, or would His Creator been the real cause of His pride, seeing how, if this were the case, he could not have acted in any other way due to necessity?
Would you agree that in order to sin, the possibility to, and ability requisite of, forming contrary intents must exist for morality, i.e sin (as in this case) to exist?
TaliOrlando
New Member
Scarlett O. said:
I have a question!! Since God knows all and he does!! Since he knew that Lucifer would create Evil then why did God create him?? Is it because of free-will, I mean Lucifer did have a choice... do evil or do good right??? But since God knows all does the word say why he created Lucifer if he knew he might turn out to do those things... Thanks
TaliOrlando said:
God did not know satan might turn out to do those things......God knew that satan would turn out to do those things.
God knew before he created Lucifer that Lucifer would be.....the devil.
Why did God create him if he knew that he would be his enemy? In Revelation 4 (at the end of the chapter, I can't remember the verse), the bible says that God is to receive glory and honor and that He created everything and that He created it out of his own will and pleasure......in other words, He set creation into motion because He had wanted to. He had a plan.
What is that great plan? Well, I don't know the entirety of it. Neither does the most spiritual nor most intellectual Christian on the planet.
We know much of what is involved.....sin entering the world, the fall of man, the need for a Savior, Christ's death, burial and resurrection, the necessity of being saved, the importance of living under the Lordship of Jesus, and eternal life spent in either heaven or hell.
But why???
That, we will have to wait on God to answer. There is sooooo much more to this "human" life and our life to come as eternal beings that we could not understand even if God talked to us personally and reallllly slooooww. :laugh:
God made satan beautiful. God did not do so to tempt Lucifer nor did God willingly force satan to use his free will to sin.
God understand the past, present, and future as one event. God is not measured by time because He has no beginning nor end.
So to answer the question as to why God set forth in motion an opportunity for Lucifer to express free will in a rebellious nature and bring sin into the world cannot be answered as "why".
It must be answered like this. Yes and no.
Yes, He did create great splendor in satan. No God did not create him evil.
Yes, He did give satan a free will, knowing what he would do with it. No, there is no human answer as to "why".
Yes, this supernatural event affects me sitting here typing away at my computer chair. No, it does not do any harm in discussing why there cannot be a "why" answer.
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
I think he could have avoided it.
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
God was not the author of Lucifer's pride. The pride was the outcome of a free will and a desire to proclaim his created splendor as being superior to God's Holiness.
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
To me, that is what sin is....contrary intents....conflicting choices...a yearn to rebel and a yearn to obey exist in each of us. They exist within the individual because they are an individual, not because God put them there.
The individual can either follow himself or herself as their own god or they can follow Jehovah God.
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: You exhibit a better understanding about sin than most teachers and theologians do. Hold that thought and stay tuned.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
All good points Scarlet.
One thing that Calvinists have a hard time with - is that God did nothing to "MAKE" Lucifer or Adam Sin. He did not "Create them in some defective way" or "Create them so they WOULD fall".
But I created ALL sinnless beings with "Free will" so that all CAN fall if they choose to - and "yes" as you said - God also knows which of those WILL choose to fall.
In Christ,
Bob