Where Has Our Morality Gone?

[righteousdude2]

I am not trying to make this a sex topic but, rather a Biblical question. I am coming across more and more young and middle aged "believers" who see nothing wrong with living together outside of marriage.

What is happening with our morality and the Bible which clearly forbids fornication?

I was wondering how many other pastors are coming in touch with this loose morality, and what you are doing when you discover a church couple that is unmarried but living together?

I ask them to get married or find another church. What say you?!?!?!?!?

Pastor Paul :type:
In the land of sin {California}

 

[Tom Butler]

I ask them to get married or find another church. What say you?!?!?!?!?

I say you did the right thing. What I'm wondering is, if you had taken this issue to your congregation, how would they have voted?

 

[J.D.]

I am not trying to make this a sex topic but, rather a Biblical question. I am coming across more and more young and middle aged "believers" who see nothing wrong with living together outside of marriage.

What is happening with our morality and the Bible which clearly forbids fornication?

I was wondering how many other pastors are coming in touch with this loose morality, and what you are doing when you discover a church couple that is unmarried but living together?

I ask them to get married or find another church. What say you?!?!?!?!?

Pastor Paul :type:
In the land of sin {California}

I would invite them to examine themselves, whether they are in the faith. I don't know if you're SBC or not but I know that Tom Aschol and others have tried to get church member discipline on the agenda at the convention but they have been greatly resisted.

 

[menageriekeeper]

There ain't nuttin' new under the sun, Pastor Paul.

That is to say, there is nothing going on with our morality that hadn't gone on for the entirity of creation. Immorality isn't any more comman now than a hundred years ago or 3000 years ago. People have simply come up with new ways to justify it. In Bible times it was justified by calling more than one woman at a time wife (think Soloman), later it was called "keeping a mistress", now it's called shackin'.

Ain't no difference in any of it!

God has told us Christians over and over again that we are in the minority. Why we expect the the majority of the world, who aren't believers and are of their father the devil, to things the way we want them to is beyond me.

We'd do better to proclaim the gospel and let the condemned do what the condemned do. They aren't going to be more condemned than they already are.

 

[Benjamin]

In Bible times it was justified by calling more than one woman at a time wife (think Soloman)...

Solo-man :laugh: :laugh:

 

[tinytim]

I am not trying to make this a sex topic but, rather a Biblical question. I am coming across more and more young and middle aged "believers" who see nothing wrong with living together outside of marriage.

What is happening with our morality and the Bible which clearly forbids fornication?

I was wondering how many other pastors are coming in touch with this loose morality, and what you are doing when you discover a church couple that is unmarried but living together?

I ask them to get married or find another church. What say you?!?!?!?!?

Pastor Paul :type:
In the land of sin {California}

I take it by you saying "church couple" you mean a couple in your membership...
In this case Matt 18...

Now if they were not members, I would handle it differently...
The lost need to know God forgives, and driving them from church defeats the purpose... they need to be at church.. to hear the gospel...

And even after they are saved, be patient...
They may not change immediately...
Remember not everyone is as perfect as us....

 

[exscentric]

I've heard recently that the churches divorce rate is higher than the worlds. With that figure, why should we be surprised at living together.

I've said many times and not pointing fingers at those who do, but too many pastors have not been teaching what real marriage is, that divorce is wrong and that living together is wrong.

I'd guess if you did some surveys you'd find many believers believe little because they have not been taught - and most assuredly some of that is because they haven't been in the Word or church.

I've read surveys about youth and beliefs and it isn't a pretty picture - youth are the coming young adults so someone needs to teach them.

Trotter is right on the Matt. 18 bit though a pastor that wants to use church discipline better find out if the board is behind him or not or else he may be in the resume business quicker than he had planned.

Knew a man that wanted to discipline a young man that needed it and found he had to sit his leadership down and show them what discipline was and why the young man needed it.

 

[righteousdude2]

They Wanted to Continue in Sin!

I've heard recently that the churches divorce rate is higher than the worlds. With that figure, why should we be surprised at living together.

I've said many times and not pointing fingers at those who do, but too many pastors have not been teaching what real marriage is, that divorce is wrong and that living together is wrong.

I'd guess if you did some surveys you'd find many believers believe little because they have not been taught - and most assuredly some of that is because they haven't been in the Word or church.

I've read surveys about youth and beliefs and it isn't a pretty picture - youth are the coming young adults so someone needs to teach them.

Trotter is right on the Matt. 18 bit though a pastor that wants to use church discipline better find out if the board is behind him or not or else he may be in the resume business quicker than he had planned.

Knew a man that wanted to discipline a young man that needed it and found he had to sit his leadership down and show them what discipline was and why the young man needed it.

Need I remind you that Jesus did not judge the woman brought to Him in sin, but He did tell her to go and sin no more.

I offered the couple the support of my ministry if they would just get married. Since it was several members of the church that turned me on to this couple, I believe I followed Jesus example with this woman in sexual sin.

The couple said they would not get married, and didn't think they would in the near future, so I sent them on their way, without being able to say to them: "sin no more".

John 8 - "But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Shalom,

Pastor Paul:type:

 

[Brother Bob]

removed;...........

 

[webdog]

Just curious about something. Legally, can a not for profit organization tell someone to leave the premesis if they are not breaking the law? I'm not asking this because I agree or disagree with the decision, just curious.

 

[annsni]

It's private property and they can. We've done it a few times, unfortunately.

 

[Pipedude]

Standards of sexual morality have been hammered unceasingly on television for the last forty years. Christians have not removed themselves from this pernicious influence, and their standards have been eroded.

As a tradesman (I fix things), I've walked up to many a door whith a tag on it that says "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." On the coffee table I see a Bible and a Sunday School quarterly. On the walls of the teenagers' bedrooms I see posters of nearly naked celebrities in sexually provocative poses. On the television I see R-rated sex scenes being enacted or I hear a torrent of language far filthier than anything I've ever heard from coworkers on construction sites.

Sumitting themselves to such influences causes Christians to be more tolerant than they used to be.

 

[HankD]

It's private property and they can. We've done it a few times, unfortunately.

That may soon change with the new administration.

Even now, private clubs are forbidden by law to be selective as to membership according to certain guidelines (gender, race, etc) as they are Civil Rights issues which supercede the Right to Privacy and the Association of like minded persons.

Soon, hate crimes will probably be expanded to encompass morality issues within this sphere of Civil Rights.

Then you and I will possibly go to jail for excluding folks from the churches concerning these "issues" and the violation of their "Civil Rights".

HankD

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Do you also expel the obese? The coveter? The one who never helps a brother or sister? What sins do you condone? Which do you hold as worse than others?

 

[annsni]

Do you also expel the obese? The coveter? The one who never helps a brother or sister? What sins do you condone? Which do you hold as worse than others?

We have expelled the one who's sin was evident and was unrepentant and would be harmful to the others who attended the church. 1 Corinthians 5 is pretty clear on this issue - we are to purge the evil person from amongst us. It is not a common occurance but it does happen. We've done this for inappropriate touching by a man with women (not touching private places but unwelcomed touching and very close touching when under the guise of prayer - I can't explain more but trust me, he needed to leave), open adultery (after counseling and defiance on his part), and stealing from others in the church. It's a serious step to take but it is Biblical and must be done at times.

 

[Amy.G]

Standards of sexual morality have been hammered unceasingly on television for the last forty years. Christians have not removed themselves from this pernicious influence, and their standards have been eroded.

As a tradesman (I fix things), I've walked up to many a door whith a tag on it that says "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." On the coffee table I see a Bible and a Sunday School quarterly. On the walls of the teenagers' bedrooms I see posters of nearly naked celebrities in sexually provocative poses. On the television I see R-rated sex scenes being enacted or I hear a torrent of language far filthier than anything I've ever heard from coworkers on construction sites.

Sumitting themselves to such influences causes Christians to be more tolerant than they used to be.

1Cr 15:33 Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."

We should all remember this verse. Me included.

 

[righteousdude2]

Didn't Expel Anyone....

Do you also expel the obese? The coveter? The one who never helps a brother or sister? What sins do you condone? Which do you hold as worse than others?

The couple made a decision to continue living in sin. I told them this was not acceptable, and helped them find a more open-minded church [and there are more open churches that accept the unmarried and gays]. I did this on direction from my deacons. I thought, within my heart, that they might be convicted and eventually marry, adding another couple to our church. But, they were not wanting to marry, said the Bible and its teaching was old, tired, and out-of-date with the new century beliefs.

It was the right thing to do, scripturally, and while I felt bad, I felt convicted and compelled.

Pastor Paul :type:

 

[gb93433]

I did this on direction from my deacons. I thought, within my heart, that they might be convicted and eventually marry, adding another couple to our church.

I see no merit in helping the couple to join a church that will help them live in sin.