Where oh where is the Sabbath?

prophecynut · Jun 24, 2005

God's chosen people the Hebrews were commanded to observe and keep the Sabbath holy. Scriptures are listed:

Exodus
16:29 - "given you the Sabbath"
20:8 - keep the Sabbath day holy
31:16 - "observe the Sabbath"
35:2 - ""seventh day shall be your holy day"

Lev.
16:31 - Sabbath a lasting ordinance
23:32 - "observe your Sabbath"
24:8 -Sabbath, "a lasting covenant"
25:2 - observe the Sabbath

Deu.
5:12 - observe the Sabbath, keep it holy
5:15 - observe the Sabbath day

Neh.
9:14 - "made known to them your holy Sabbath
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WE ARE NOW LIVING IN THE CHURCH AGE.

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Observance of the Sabbath during the Millennium.
Isa. 56:2 - blessed is the man who keeps the Sabbath
56:6 - foreigners who keep the Sabbath
66:23 - all mankind will observe the Sabbath

The Church Age began in Acts 2 at Pentecost and will end on the Lord's day, Rev. 4:1. I challenge any one to locate Scripture stating the Church is to observe or keep the Sabbath as a holy day unto the Lord.

Where is the Church to keep the Sabbath a lasting ordinance? I don't want opinions or theories or casual references to the Sabbath, I want proof from the Word of God.

Monergist · Jun 24, 2005

Originally posted by prophecynut:

Where is the Church to keep the Sabbath a lasting ordinance? I don't want opinions or theories or casual references to the Sabbath, I want proof from the Word of God.
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The proof you are looking for you've already posted. Read the verses you've referenced.

Otherwise, the burden of proof lies in proving that at ACTS 2 it was ABOLISHED...which, of course, must be proven by scripture, not by "opinions or theories or casual references to the Sabbath."

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

THE SCOPE of Christ the Creator's Sabbath:

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not mankind for the Sabbath"

Isaiah 66 "From SABBATH TO SABBATH - shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to WORSHIP
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Interesting that D. L. Moody agrees with these texts in saying that Christ the Creator's holy day was kept by mankind from the days of Adam and is still as authorotative in Christ as it ever was!!

The idea that the church is to rebell against Christ the Creator's Holy Day UNTIL the 2nd coming - at which time the Bride of Christ will once again honor and obey Christ the Creator's Holy Day -- is fiction in an "anything-goes to attack Christ the Creator's Holy day" model.

In Romans 11 the OT and NT CHURCH are ALL ONE VINE!!

In Rev 12 the OT and NT church are ALL ONE WOMAN - a pure church.

In Eph 2 all walls of biggotry against our fellow man is removed ALL ARE ONE!

From the BEGINNING God published the law Lev 19:18 "LOVE your NEIGHBOR as yourself!".

The Moral Code CONTINUES in the NT

Eph 6:1-3 The 5th commandment is the FIRST in the CONTINUED UNIT of Law with a promise!

James 2 - QUOTES the Ten Commandments and argues that to break ONE is to break ALL!

Rev 14:7-8 THE UNIQUE Sabbath Commandment language of CHrist the Creator is used.

Heb 4 "THERE REMAINS therefore Sabbath rest for the People of God".

In Christ,

Bob

tamborine lady · Jun 24, 2005

It's right there where it's always been when people left it to start worshipping on Sunday.

And God is still wondering "what are they doing?"

Selah,

Tam

Monergist · Jun 24, 2005

From the Westminster Larger Catechism:

Question 115: Which is the fourth commandment?
Answer: The fourth commandment is, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Question 116: What is required in the fourth commandment?
Answer: The fourth commandment requires of all men the sanctifying or keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven; which was the seventh from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, and the first day of the week ever since, and so to continue to the end of the world; which is the Christian sabbath, and in the New Testament called the Lord's day.

Question 117: How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified?
Answer: The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day, not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful; and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to betaken up in works of necessity and mercy) in the public and private exercises of God's worship: and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day.

Question 118: Why is the charge of keeping the sabbath more specially directed to governors of families, and other superiors?
Answer: The charge of keeping the sabbath is more specially directed to governors of families, and other superiors, because they are bound not only to keep it themselves, but to see that it be observed by all those that are under their charge; and because they are prone ofttimes to hinder them by employments of their own.

Question 119: What are the sins forbidden in the fourth commandment?
Answer: The sins forbidden in the fourth commandment are, all omissions of the duties required, all careless, negligent, and unprofitable performing of them, and being weary of them; all profaning the day by idleness, and doing that which is in itself sinful; and by all needless works, words, and thoughts, about our worldly employments and recreations.

Question 120: What are the reasons annexed to the fourth commandment, the more to enforce it?
Answer: The reasons annexed to the fourth commandment, the more to enforce it, are taken from the equity of it, God allowing us six days of seven for our own affairs, and reserving but one for himself, in these words, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: from God's challenging a special propriety in that day, The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: from the example of God, who in six days made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: and from that blessing which God put upon that day, not only in sanctifying it to be a day for his service, but in ordaining it to be a means of blessing to us in our sanctifying it;Wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Question 121: Why is the word Remember set in the beginning of the fourth commandment?
Answer: The word Remember is set in the beginning of the fourth commandment, partly, because of the great benefit of remembering it, we being thereby helped in our preparation to keep it, and, in keeping it, better to keep all the rest of the commandments, and to continue a thankful remembrance of the two great benefits of creation and redemption, which contain a short abridgment of religion; and partly, because we are very ready to forget it, for that there is less light of nature for it, and yet it restrains our natural liberty in things at other times lawful; that it comes but once in seven days, and many worldly businesses come between, and too often take off our minds from thinking of it, either to prepare for it, or to sanctify it;and that Satan with his instruments much labor to blot out the glory, and even the memory of it, to bring in all irreligion and impiety.
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prophecynut · Jun 24, 2005

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Heb 4 "THERE REMAINS therefore Sabbath rest for the People of God".
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This is a perpetual Sabbath rest for those who place their faith in his Son. Believers cease their efforts to gain salvation by their own works and rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Just as I thought, the usual rhetoric coming from the Sabbath keepers. I want Scriptural proof which none of you have provided, like those in the list but only applicable to the Church. Where oh where is the Sabbath for the Church?

billwald · Jun 24, 2005

Please list for me the ordinances of the moral code. The entire list is at

www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

God's Moral code can be found in Exodus 20 AS HE SPOKE the UNIT of TEN. God calls it "THE Ten Commandments" and HE makes this statement about the fact that HE spoke "THESE TEN AND ADDED NO MORE" --

Deut 5

22 ""These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exodus 20
1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "" I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

I – </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
3 "" You shall have no other gods before Me.
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II –

4 "" You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 "" You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
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III –

7 "" You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
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IV –

8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
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V

12 "" Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.
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VI

13 "" You shall not murder.
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VII

14 "" You shall not commit adultery.
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VIII

15 "" You shall not steal.
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IX

16 "" You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
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X

17 "" You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.''
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</font>
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Since "he added no more" but just WROTE THESE on Tablets of stone it is EASY to see why Paul says the 5th commandment is the FIRST in that unit "with a promise" Eph 6:1-3.

In Christ,

Bob

prophecynut · Jun 24, 2005

Apparently the Sabbath keepers failed to understand my simple request to provide Scriptural evidence for the Church to observe the Sabbath, or is it just plain stubbornness?

Exodus 20:8-10
"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you (Hebrews) shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God."

The above passage refers to the Hebrews, God's chosen people. I would like you to find like passage in reference to the Church. Understand?

The Church was still a mystery in the OT and the Gospels and only revealed to the Apostle Paul after Jesus ascended to the Father. Church doctrine did not exist before Paul's ministry, if observance of the Sabbath was meant for the Church Paul would of instructed us to observe it. Where in the teachings of Paul are we to observe the Sabbath?

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

It is interesting that ONLY the LAW of the Ten Commandments was to be placed inside the Ark of the Covenant (1 Kings 8:9, Deut 10:2-4)

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

The Mark 2:27 - "Sabbath was MADE for mankind" - many people even today - believe that the CHURCH is part of MANKIND. (How facinating!!)

The Sabbath will be kept by ALL MANKIND (Isaiah 66) at the 2nd coming (just after it) and many people EVEN today think that the CHURCH is the Bride of Christ that WILL be keeping His Holy day.

Many people EVEN today think that the SAINTS are those that compose THE CHURCH - and in Rev 12 we see that the saints are "Keeping the Commandments OF GOD".

Many people EVEN today think that the CHURCH is "on the earth" - in Rev 14 we SEE the command for those who DWELL on the earth to worship the Creator in the language of the Sabbath commandment.

Many people EVEN today think that the CHURCH today represents the PEOPLE of God - so when Paul says in Heb 4:9 THERE REMAINS Sabbath rest for THE PEOPLE of GOD - many think the CHURCH is included in that phrase!!

When Paul writes to the CHURCH He says that "WE ESTABLISH the LAW of GOD by our faith" Rom 3:31.

When James writes TO THE CHURCH He quotes from the UNIT OF TEN and says to the CHURCH "HE who is guilty of breaking one is guilty of breaking ALL".

(This just isn't that hard "to get").

And yet some would ask after reading that obvious list "yes but what about the CHURCH"??

How "instructive".

In Christ,

Bob

prophecynut · Jun 24, 2005

Interesting fact in 1 Kings 8:8, the poles that used to carry the Ark are "still there today" underneath the Temple Mount. The poles were never to be removed from the rings attached to the Ark (Ex. 25:15), if the poles are still there the Ark is still there today. It will be brought up and placed in the third temple where the Antichrist claims to be God and sets up the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel.

prophecynut · Jun 24, 2005

Bob, you continue to rant on without any substance.

Scriptural proof from the teachings of Paul, understand?

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

Still can't "find the church" In the Bride of Christ or the NT or the age to come or "The People of GOD" Heb 4???

I can just imagine how frustrating that must be for your position to have to pretend like that in spite of the obvious points listed.

prophecynut · Jun 24, 2005

The church is not the Bride of Christ.

The church is in the NT; Acts 2 - Rev. 4:1.

The church is not in the age to come which is the Millennium, we are in the New Jerusalem during this time.

The church is in Heb. 4 as believers who enter God's rest, those who heard the gospel but "did not combined it with faith" shall never enter His rest.

Yes, I get frustrated when the obvious truth is shunned by intelligent people capable of comprehending the truth.

Where are the Scriptures?

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

Originally posted by prophecynut:
The church is not the Bride of Christ.
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And the "Bible says" --

Eph 5
Marriage--Christ and the Church

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies;
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The church in compromise is called adultery against God

James 4
4You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

5 Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: "He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?
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The harlot of Revelation is an impure church.

The pure woman of Rev 12 is the Pure church.

2 Cor 11
2For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
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The bride of Christ is the Church and during the Millennium the church dwells in the New Jerusalem.

In Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

Originally posted by prophecynut:

The church is not in the age to come which is the Millennium, we are in the New Jerusalem during this time.
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No text says that the church (the bride of Christ as Paul calls her in 2 Cor 11) does not exist after the 2nd coming - during the 1000 years that starts at the 2nd coming -- so you make it up.

(BTW - No text says that Christ is on earth during the 1000 years either)

Christ raptures the church to heaven - and in heaven is where "ALL MANKIND" will be during that 1000 years. (ALl mankind that is ALIVE)

In Rev 21 we see the NEW HEAVENS and NEW EARTH spoken of in Isaiah 66 and it is AFTER the 1000 years. At that time the Church IS back on earth.

When God says ALL MANKIND comes to worship - He is literally correct it is ALL MANKIND that are ALIVE! (obviously the wicked dead will not be worshipping God during the 1000 years NOR will they be doing that after they get tossed into the Lake of fire)

In Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

This position has been "shown" with scripture after scripture.

And the rejection of these texts? Seems to have nothing behind it!

In Christ,

Bob

prophecynut · Jun 24, 2005

WHERE ARE THE SCRIPTURES? You got a problem Bob?

You have not given any Scripture that commands the Church to keep the Sabbath holy. I don't want your nonsense, I want proof. If there is a command for the Church to observe the Sabbath it will be located between Acts 2 and Rev. 4. Now find it and stop the drivel.

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2005

So far I have given scripture after scripture - and you have given -- zip/nadda/zero in defense of your "ignore Christ the Creator's holy day FOR A WHILE" doctrine.

You admit it was binding before the cross AND even FOR ALL MANKIND at the 2nd coming -- but you refuse to look at the BRIDE OF CHRIST statements of Paul AND at the scriptures SHOWING that the SAINTS are those who KEEP the commandments of God - Rom 3:31 with their FAITH ESTABLISHING the Law of God.

Text after text and you have to keep "pretending" you don't see them!!

Even D.L. Moody got this basic point.

In Christ,

Bob

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