Which Baptist Church Teaches.....

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
I'm impressed Craig you found a loop hole, though it be a weak one.

One word GRACE you choose to attack but yet cannot explain all the others away. I know what grace means according to Gods word I don't need to look at your dictionary. My point was made plain and simple. I'd put away all your books of men and just focus on studying Gods word. You are getting way to confused

GRACE in the Bible dictionary

GRACE is also regarded as the sustaining influence ENABLING the believer to persevere in the Christian life. ACTS 11:23 20:32 11 COR 9:14
thus, it is not merely the initiatory act of God in grace which secures the believers eternal salvation, but also that which MAINTAINS IT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRETY OF THE CHRISTIANS LIFE.

AMEN

Dear Sister,

It took a little more than 2nd grade education to send the Rover to Mars and enable it to function there. And it takes a little more than 2nd year Greek to fully appreciate the concept and working of God’s grace in the lives of men. And believe it or not, there are some individuals arguing in this thread who haven’t even completed two years of Greek at the seminary level!

It is good and proper for all of us to SHARE what we have learned, but for those who have learned little to ARGUE with those who have learned much seems to me to be on the side of the ridiculous. What would you think of me if you posted on a subject that you have studied for many years and I argued with you even though I have not studied your subject?

I can still remember the first time I walked through a large university library. As I walked past the miles and miles of stacks, I pondered how very much learning the millions of volumes represented and how very ignorant I was, and I determined to make at least a dent in that ignorance of mine and to make at least a dent in the ignorance of others.

But, oddly enough, the more that I studied the more I become aware of how much more there is to learn. Both God and His grace are infinite, and anyone who tries to put either God or His grace into a box is going to break that box and make a mess of things. And the study of God’s grace is fundamental to the understanding of the doctrines of salvation and their peripheral doctrines. Although you seem to argue against almost everything that I post, please understand that I am posting in order to be a blessing to you by sharing with you a little of what God has shared with me through the ministry of academic scholarship, and I pray from my inner most being that at least something that I post will be a blessing to you.

 

[RightFromWrong]

Craigbythesea

My dear brother, your problem is you are counting on all these years of misguided and false teaching to argue with those who have a few years of RIGHT teaching. So in your eyes since you have more years you think you are RIGHT. The only thing that is right is you have had more years of being taught WRONG ! So what !

ROMANS 1:22 1COr.1:20

[ August 30, 2005, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: RightFromWrong ]

 

[rsr]

This thread is degenerating and should return to the original topic. Quickly.

Thank you for your consideration.

 

[RightFromWrong]

rsr Do you have any suggestions ?

I think the original question has been answered. there were basically on two possible churches.

 

[Frances]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
So Bible Believing Bill how does your pastor explain these words in the Bible ? If we can walk away from God then he is a liar and his promises and words are not true. RIGHT !

If these WORDS and what they mean do not prove assurance of Salvation I do not what else can !

NOTHING

ETERNAL LIFE

PREDESTINED

SECURITY

ASSURANCE

SALVATION

FORGIVENESS

SAVED

ADOPTION

JOINT HEIRS

REDEMPTION

JUSTIFIED

GLORIFIED

SEALED

GRACE

MERCY

SANCTIFIED
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After looking up all those words what is the conclusion of what Christ did for me ?

He chose me before the foundation of the world
NOT ME

He redemmed me from Hell
NOT ME

He chose me to be adopted into his family
NOT ME

He forgave me of all my sins forever
NOT BASED ON ME


He gave me life everlasting
NOT ME

He sanctified me by the shedding of his blood
NOT MINE

He sealed me with his stamp of approval ( Holy Spirit )
NOT MINE

He glorified me by his RIGHTEOUSNESS
NOT MY OWN

He assured me that he is forever faithful, true & is not a liar
I AM NOT TO BE TRUSTED BUT HE IS

He secured me with the Holy Spirit
NOT MY WILL OR FLESH

He Justified me through his sacrifice into a right relationship with God
JUST AS IF I HAD NEVER SINNED

And so on and so on

The only thing we are responsible for is to respond to God both in receiving Christ and after in yielding to his will. That is our responsiblity.
Gods resonsibilty is to remain True and Faithful
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose that if I got my understanding about Jesus and his saving grace by looking up words in a dictionary rather than by studying the Bible I would be confused too!

However, for those who wish to get their understanding about Jesus and his saving grace by looking words up in a dictionary, I suggest that they use a SUBSTANTIALLY more appropriate dictionary than the one that RightFromWrong used. The very most appropriate one for this purpose is the 10 volume Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. This is by far the best dictionary to use if you care enough about the correct meaning of the words used in the Greek New Testament to REALLY study them.

P.S. You will find the definition of the Greek word translated “grace” in volume 9, on pages 373-402. Yes, that’s right—God’s grace is not such an extremely simple concept as some people who have never studied believe it to be.

</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
Craigbythesea

My dear brother, your problem is you are counting on all these years of misguided and false teaching to argue with those who have a few years of RIGHT teaching. So in your eyes since you have more years you think you are RIGHT. The only thing that is right is you have had more years of being taught WRONG ! So what !

ROMANS 1:22 1COr.1:20

You have not read the thousands of volumes that I have studied that support my position and you have, therefore, no basis of fact to evaluate my position. I, on the other hand, have studied hundreds of volumes that teach your position and I have learned first hand that the authors were comparatively lacking in their education and their knowledge of the Bible, giving me in a very solid basis of fact to evaluate your position and I have done so—it is a false teaching based upon misinformation.

I realize very well, however, that unless an individual has a very extensive and highly academic education he does not have the basis to know what such a thing is, and from their point of view their authors have an extensive and highly academic, so this discussion will take us nowhere that is profitable for anyone.

Back to your original question. Most Baptist denominations teach eternal security; most other denominations do not. Within the Baptist denominations that do teach eternal security there are typically some individuals who have carefully and prayerfully studied the Bible on their own or through some other means come to the conclusion that the doctrine of eternal security is a false doctrine, but some of these individuals choose to remain in their church and denomination. Personally, I have never believed in the doctrine of eternal security but my other beliefs are more Baptist than they are Lutheran or any other denomination. And you might be surprised by how many Baptist pastors and laymen believe in conditional security but share that belief only with close friends that are not blabbermouths.

 

[rsr]

Unless there is additional comment on the original question, I will close this thread tonight and let the debate continue elsewhere.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:

Please read my posts carefully and prayerfully, and please do not misrepresent my words or my ideas when responding to them.

Perhaps Craig I did not read as carefully all of your posts as I should have, and for that I apologize. Now, perhaps you could give an answer to the one post that I did make where I demonstrated through Scripture that Hebrew was often used by the Jews of NT times.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by rsr:
"There is no such entity as 'the Baptist Church'."

Well said. However, you are wrong that "True Baptists have always taught 'eternal security of the believer.'

Baptists historically have been defined by polity and other distinctives, not soteriology, a matter over which they have often disagreed.

This ought to be the conclustion of the whole matter. Those distinctives include sola scriptura or the Bible as our final authority in all points of faith and doctrine. Thus it really doesn't matter to me how many church fathers one can find that didn't believe in OSAS or how many scholars deny eternal security, it is the Word of God that counts. Thus saith the Lord! What does he say? Not man.

The Priesthood of the believer, that every believer is a priest before God.
Soul liberty, that we all have the right and obligation to determine for ourselves what we believe the Bible is teaching. I cannot be condemned by others for what I believe. I will fight for your right to believe what you believe though I may disagree with it. This has been one of the hallmarks of Baptists throughout the ages.

The autonomoy of the local church. You are so right. There is no "Baptist Church," only Baptist churches, and many of them, all independent one from another. We have no denomination. Each church is autonomous.

Each church is composed of baptized and regenerated members.
Baptism by immersion and the Lord's Table are the only two ordinances. No such thing as sacraments.
Separation from church and state.
Separation ecclesiastically and ethically.

These are most of the distinctives that Baptists would hold to, and that would differentiate Baptists from other groups of believers and non-believers alike.

There have been both Calvinistic and Arminian Baptists.
DHK

 

[rsr]

And so, the question having been answered (and then some), this thread is now closed.