Featured Which comes first?

Good list!

Also include Romans 10

[FONT=&quot]Rom 10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." [/FONT]

 

Life!

John 3:3-12
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Pay particular attention to Verses 8 & 12!

And then there is this:

Ephesians 1:3-6
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

I believe the above shows God doing it all as well as the following.

Ephesians 2:1-10
1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus,
7. in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9. not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

A number of things happen when a person is saved. Faith is an essential aspect of salvation so it is not unusual or odd that Scripture would include faith when discussing those who have experienced redemption by God.

 

Belief or Life?
John 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

End of story.


And "yet" we must consider -



[FONT=&quot]Rom 10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." [/FONT]


in Christ,

Bob

 

There is a clear distinction between spiritual life and judicial life. The former comes by impartation in new birth and the latter comes by imputation in justification. Justification reverses legal condemnation in heaven due to your position in Christ whereas spiritual life comes by way of new birth in your own person on earth.

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You are confusing obligation with ability.

These are already saved persons as they are already in God's household and the subject is service not salvation.

The power and ability to turn to the Lord is plainly spelled out in 2 Cor. 3:3-6

You are confusing the written word with the living incarnate word who empowers the gospel when the elect are quickened as a creative work.

The "we" are already saved persons. In each case above the OBLIGATION is expressed but the ability is not found in the person but in the Lord.

1 John 5:1 the perfect tense "born of God" and the present tense participle "believeth" are properly expressed in regard to the time of action as simeltaneous or the state of being verb "is." There is no such thing as can unregenerated beleiver or a regenerated unbeliever just as there is no such thing as a unrepentant beleiver or a repentant unbeliever. These are inseparable graces in a logical cause and effect relationship but not a chronological relationship

 

Belief or Life?
John 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

End of story.

And "yet" we must consider -


[FONT=&quot]Rom 10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." [/FONT]

It is easy to see how the Arminian position is "in the text" and how the Calvinist position more or less dies in these two examples.

But what about the text that is supposed to refute the Arminian position that was given earlier from Ephesians?

4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus,

Obviously it can not refute one or the other if not does not oppose, if both agree then it cannot refute. Both Calvinism and the Arminian position agree that a born again Christian "the new creation" and "raised in newness of life" is the one who is "alive" and not dead.

BOTH Calvinism and the Arminian position would agree that someone NOT justified and NOT born again and WITHOUT the new nature - is NOT the one "Alive" and is the one "Dead in transgression".

In the Arminian model God takes the one who is dead in sin - and yet has chosen confession, repentance and the Gospel - and makes them "ALIVE together with Christ".

In the Calvinist model God mind-zap them while they are dead in sin - causes them to be born again before they choose anything - and then they choose repentance, confession and the gospel having been already fully reprogrammed - full mind-zap.

But in BOTH models the one dead in sin is "made alive in Christ" so NEITHER position is refuted in this quote of Ephesians.

Thus here again -- Calvinism only works by extreme inference and ignoring the details in the text.

in Christ,

Bob

 

We are sinners in regard to our LEGAL POSITION before the Law of God as we are under the LEGAL condemnation of the law with the legal verdict of death. However, in regard to our PERSONAL CONDITION we are spiritually dead, meaning our human spirit is actually separated from God and thus spiritually dead.

Regeneration restores our actual condition from spiritual death to spiritual life while justification restores our legal condition from condemnation/death to justification of eternal life.

Regeneration actually IMPARTS eternal life to our spirit while justification legally IMPUTES eternal life to our position before God. We are children (Gr. Teknia) by spiritual birth but sons (Huios) or legal heirs by justification.

So in regard to your quetion "God brings us to life twice" the answer is yes, but not "spiritual" life twice! Spiritual life occurs with regeneration of our person while legal life is the legal verdict due to imputed righteousness of Christ before the Law of God. Both are eternal life but the former is spiritual due to imparted spiritual life in our person by actual spiritual union with God while the latter is judicial due to a legal change of position before the law from condemnation unto death to justification of eternal life based upon the imputed righteousness of Christ.

In the initial salvation action regeneration logically (not chronologically) precedes justification and so SPIRITUAL LIFE is imparted which is inclusive of faith which obtains JUDICAL LIFE. So there is no such thing as an regenerated unbeliever (hyper calvinism) or a unregenerated believer (Arminiansims).

Now, I realize what kind of reaction I will receive from the Arminians and hyper-calvinists but for those who have ears to hear let them hear, let them prayerfully consider these words.

 

Those who carefully consider what I have said, will understand every aspect is completely Biblical.

 

So I get this right.....I need examples

a unregenerated believer---You mean a Carnal Christian right?

a regenerated unbeliever----thats harder to comprehend. you mean an elect that hasn't been saved/regenerated.....Like me 3 yrs ago. although you could have called me a Carnal Christian & been correct as well. In either event, there was NO indwelling of the Holy Spirit as the agent of change.

No wait...... you cant be Regenerated & choose not to believe....thats a contradiction

 

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

John Gill might shed some light on the issue.:thumbs: But then again he might confuse some even further!:smilewinkgrin:

 

Arminians answer: Belief.

Jesus answers: Life.

If it is true that all men are born spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, then it is impossible for man to come to faith before spiritual life is given.

This is due to the fact that saving faith in Christ is spiritual and not carnal.

The Bible speaks to the issue of carnal faith.

Those are they whom the Scripture calls ‘tares’ sown among the wheat, ‘goats’ in comparison to sheep, ‘never known’ in comparison to ‘foreknown.’

The Scripture in question does not negate the eternal truth that saving faith is the necessary effect of spiritual life; rather John is emphasizing the truth of continuing in belief.

The biblical heedings which warn of the danger of temporary faith which is carnal in nature are numerous.

It is quite frightening to think of the masses of professing Christians who claim to have once said the ‘Sinners Prayer’, or ‘asked Jesus into their hearts' when a mere child, or were baptized……all proving they once believed.

However, no fruit was forthcoming to prove their faith was spiritually created by God.

Instead, their faith was carnally created by man.

“no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”

Conclusion: No man can say with saving faith Jesus is the Lord, but only after having been quickened to life by the Holy Ghost.

 

If the word of God was so simple then there would be no disgreements or thousands of denominations but one great CombaYah fellowship. Diligent study is work.

Most studied evangelical's realize that justification is a legal term that has to do with our LEGAL POSITION before the Law and the righteousness received is IMPUTED not imparted righteousness. Justification by the life of Christ is necessary because we have been LEGALLY CONDEMNED "under law" as violators of the Law. Justification removes us out from under that legal standing and to a new legal standing before God that justifies us for eternal life. God had told Israel to "do this and live" as that would be the legal justification for eternal life. Failure brought us under legal condemnation to death. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us by faith and thus "life" is legally justified by the law.

Most studied evangelicals realize that regeneration has to do with our very person (not our legal position) or anything to do with the Law. Regeneration literally brings us into actual spiritual union with God who is life. It is through this spiritual union the righteousness of God is imparted (not imputed) into our very life by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Greek uses two different terms to refer to our life legally versus spiritually. Spiritually we are "teknia" by new birth - life through birth whereas, legally we are "huios" by law - life through legal declaration. In every case where eternal life follows faith it refers to our legal position as "huios" or sons. However, in every case where spiritual life is due to birth we are identifid as "teknia" or legal heirs or "sons".