While We Were Yet Enemies....

[kyredneck]

@Brightfame52 (sorry for the delay, totally missed this till now)

Posts 68 & 69 The Gospel of the Kingdom

@Brightfame52 #69:
"Okay then we agree on that, that is good. The reason why that is important is because it shows that sinners Christ died for, even as unbelieving enemies, are not under Gods condemnation and wrath as unbelieving enemies as these Jn 3:18,36. What you think about that ? Can they be reconciled to God legally by Christs death, and still be condemned, under wrath at the same time ?"

Regeneration BEFORE faith is the simple answer:

18 He that believeth on him is not judged... Why? Because he has eternal life already

36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life.... Why? Because God has wrought within him already:

21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

Regeneration BEFORE faith is the simple answer.

 

[tyndale1946]

@Brightfame52 (sorry for the delay, totally missed this till now)

Posts 68 & 69 The Gospel of the Kingdom

@Brightfame52 #69:
"Okay then we agree on that, that is good. The reason why that is important is because it shows that sinners Christ died for, even as unbelieving enemies, are not under Gods condemnation and wrath as unbelieving enemies as these Jn 3:18,36. What you think about that ? Can they be reconciled to God legally by Christs death, and still be condemned, under wrath at the same time ?"

Regeneration BEFORE faith is the simple answer:

18 He that believeth on him is not judged... Why? Because he has eternal life already

36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life.... Why? Because God has wrought within him already:

21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

Regeneration BEFORE faith is the simple answer.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

The LORD "ALWAYS"... beats the preacher to the creature!... Brother Glen

 

[Van]

LOL, the fiction of regeneration before faith is once again hoisted like a dead shark on a hook.

We are saved "through" faith thus faith provides the means or reason for salvation. This truth is found many many times in scripture. (More than a dozen times!!)

Why people claim scripture says the opposite of what it says is mind-boggling.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52 (sorry for the delay, totally missed this till now)

Posts 68 & 69 The Gospel of the Kingdom

@Brightfame52 #69:
"Okay then we agree on that, that is good. The reason why that is important is because it shows that sinners Christ died for, even as unbelieving enemies, are not under Gods condemnation and wrath as unbelieving enemies as these Jn 3:18,36. What you think about that ? Can they be reconciled to God legally by Christs death, and still be condemned, under wrath at the same time ?"

Regeneration BEFORE faith is the simple answer:

18 He that believeth on him is not judged... Why? Because he has eternal life already

36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life.... Why? Because God has wrought within him already:

21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

Regeneration BEFORE faith is the simple answer.

Thanks for the response. So do you believe the elect are under condemnation before regeneration ?

 

[kyredneck]

Thanks for the response. So do you believe the elect are under condemnation before regeneration ?

I don't think any of His elect are ever 'hell bound'.

 

[Brightfame52]

I don't think any of His elect are ever 'hell bound'.

They are not, which the condemned are, they the elect were never under Gods wrath for sin since Christ came under it in their stead. Now do the elect deserve Gods condemnation and wrath ? Yes, by all means, by nature they are children of wrath even as others Eph 2:3. What the elect are by nature is deserving of wrath.

 

[kyredneck]

They are not, which the condemned are, they the elect were never under Gods wrath for sin since Christ came under it in their stead.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Ro 4
(Ps 32:2)

 

[Brightfame52]

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Ro 4
(Ps 32:2)

Exactly !

 

[canadyjd]

Thanks for the response. So do you believe the elect are under condemnation before regeneration ?

I don't think any of His elect are ever 'hell bound'.

An interesting thought. So, “enemies of God” but not condemned by God; not under God’s wrath? “Sinners” and “dead in trespasses and sin”, but not bound for hell?

If true, not only regeneration preceding faith, but salvation preceding regeneration as well?

peace to you

 

[agedman]

“…born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

“…17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”

 

[tyndale1946]

I don't think any of His elect are ever 'hell bound'.

I don't believe so either but that being said, you are bound for Heaven by the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ alone but you can be put through Hell in this life before you ever get there... Brother Glen

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[Brightfame52]

An interesting thought. So, “enemies of God” but not condemned by God; not under God’s wrath? “Sinners” and “dead in trespasses and sin”, but not bound for hell?

If true, not only regeneration preceding faith, but salvation preceding regeneration as well?

peace to you

Yes, however you have different aspects of Salvation such as:

The eternal realm
The Legal realm
The spiritual realm
The Glorified realm

The first 2 realms precede the spiritual realm of regeneration, which realm is the consequent of the previous realms.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, however you have different aspects of Salvation such as:

The eternal realm
The Legal realm
The spiritual realm
The Glorified realm

The first 2 realms precede the spiritual realm of regeneration, which realm is the consequent of the previous realms.

Generally, Primitive Baptists hold to TWO aspects of our salvation; the eternal [intangible] in which we are totally passive:

6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Ro 5
5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), Eph 2

20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Lu 10

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1

...and the temporal [tangible] in which we are obliged to obey the gospel:

9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Ro 10

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth unto his own flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth unto the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap eternal life. Gal 6

 

[tyndale1946]

Generally, Primitive Baptists hold to TWO aspects of our salvation; the eternal [intangible] in which we are totally passive:

6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Ro 5
5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), Eph 2

20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Lu 10

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1

...and the temporal [tangible] in which we are obliged to obey the gospel:

9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Ro 10

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth unto his own flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth unto the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap eternal life. Gal 6

The first one to my understanding is where The LORD beats the preacher to the creature!... Its called Regeneration!

The second one is The Lord, uses the preacher to instruct the regenerated creature what he is obliged to do according to the written gospel in serving the Lord and his fellow man... Its called Discipleship!... Brother Glen

 

[Brightfame52]

kentucky

Generally, Primitive Baptists hold to TWO aspects of our salvation; the eternal [intangible] in which we are totally passive:

6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Ro 5

This would be my legal realm

5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), Eph 2

Spiritual realm

20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Lu 10

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1

Eternal realm

..and the temporal [tangible] in which we are obliged to obey the gospel:

9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Ro 10

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth unto his own flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth unto the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap eternal life. Gal 6

Spiritual realm