Who Appears at the Great White Throne?

[J. Jump]

Whether or not the believers at the GWT actually go through another judgment, or if their names are just looked up in the book of life, it matters little. They still have to wait until this day to enter into life with their brethren who overcame and were reigning for the previous thousand years.

That makes sense.

 

[ccdnt]

James Newman,
I see that this thread has almost turned into a OSAS versus CS (conditional security) thread. Since you were the OP, is this the direction you want this thread to go? I thought I would ask before I responded to some posts that went in that direction.

 

[James_Newman]

I don't see what harm it could do.

 

[ccdnt]

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:27)
---------------------------------------------------------
Things Hard To Be Understood: 1 Cor. 9:27

The context here is not Paul’s salvation, but his Christian service. Paul was concerned that he would be castaway in the sense that he would be put on a shelf in this life or that his service would be rejected or disapproved at the judgment seat of Christ. The same Greek word is translated “rejected.” Paul was not afraid that he would be lost. He testified that he knew Christ would keep him (2Ti 1:12). What he feared was falling short of God’s high calling for his life. The context makes this plain. He is talking about running a race and winning a prize. To confuse this passage with salvation is to misunderstand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not a reward for faithful service. The Bible plainly states that salvation is by grace, and grace is the free, unmerited mercy of God (Eph 2:8-9). Anything that is merited or rewarded, is not grace (Ro 11:6). On the other hand, after we are saved by the marvelous grace of God, we are called to serve Jesus Christ. We are created in Christ Jesus “unto good works” (Eph 2:10). If a Christian is lazy and carnal, he will be chastened by the Lord (Heb 12:6-8), and if he does not respond, God will take him home (Ro 8:13; 1Co 11:30; 1Jo 5:16).

Regardless of whether or not I Corinthians 9:27 is speaking of salvation, there are plently of other verses that warn against the possibility of a believer falling away from Christ.

 

[DHK]

Regardless of whether or not I Corinthians 9:27 is speaking of salvation, there are plently of other verses that warn against the possibility of a believer falling away from Christ.

That passage is speaking of Christian service, not eternal salvation. The entire illustration of one training as an althelete is comparable for one in training as a good soldier of Jesus Christ, that is for service for our King. It has nothing to do with losing one's salvation. If you are not fit to run, you won't run. But you won't be kicked out of the family either.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is nothing that can separate us from the love of God. It is his love that keeps us. It is his grace that keeps us. And it is He that will keep us from the GWT.

 

[James_Newman]

But what is the purpose for running the race? The athlete in Pauls analogy runs to obtain a crown. What is the crown that we are running for? As yet, no one has suggested that we are running for our salvation. But surely we aren't running just for the fun of it?

1 Corinthians 9:24-25
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

There is a crown to be won, and if you don't run, you won't win it. What is it?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

verse 25 clearly shows it is an incorruptible crown.

 

[James_Newman]

Must be really shiny, too.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

There are many crowns that can be obtained in the Word of God.

The Crown of Righteousness
The Crown Incorruptible
The Crown of Rejoicing
The Crown of Hope
The Crown of Glory

 

[James_Newman]

What does that mean to me? Are you telling me I am in danger of losing my shiny hat?

 

[DHK]

There is a crown to be won, and if you don't run, you won't win it. What is it?

Some of those crowns are listed by "His Blood" If you don't run you will lose reward at the JSOC. You won't earn the crown. But then what do you mean by "not run?" Once you are saved you are in the race running, whether you like it or not. It is not that you have a choice in the matter. The question will be at the JSOC Is How you ran the race; not if you ran the race. You are already in it. Crawl, walk, jog, or go full speed ahead; that is up to you. How you run it is your decision. And that is what will be asked of you.

 

[James_Newman]

Some of those crowns are listed by "His Blood" If you don't run you will lose reward at the JSOC. You won't earn the crown. But then what do you mean by "not run?" Once you are saved you are in the race running, whether you like it or not. It is not that you have a choice in the matter. The question will be at the JSOC Is How you ran the race; not if you ran the race. You are already in it. Crawl, walk, jog, or go full speed ahead; that is up to you. How you run it is your decision. And that is what will be asked of you.

I mean whatever you mean. You said

If you are not fit to run, you won't run. But you won't be kicked out of the family either.

Fine, but you won't win a crown by crawling.

This goes back to my original topic.

Revelation 20:4-5
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Do you suppose that any of these people will be reigning without crowns?

 

[webdog]

Fine, but you won't win a crown by crawling.

A race is an analogy. There is only one person to win a race. Are you saying there is only one person ruling with Christ, as there can only be one "winner" in a race?

If someone doesn't win a race, what happens? Are they taken out back and beaten, or do they just not win the prize?

 

[J. Jump]

A race is an analogy. There is only one person to win a race. Are you saying there is only one person ruling with Christ, as there can only be one "winner" in a race?

Actually there are places. And while yes only one person finishes first each person that finishes the race places. The Bible tells us that there will be some that bear more fruit than others. And the Bible tells us there will be yet others that bear no fruit at all.

 

[J. Jump]

Crawl, walk, jog, or go full speed ahead; that is up to you.

What about those that never get off the start line? Just because you line up doesn't mean you are going to take off. There are people that drop out of races all the time before the gun ever sounds.

 

[webdog]

Actually there are places. And while yes only one person finishes first each person that finishes the race places. The Bible tells us that there will be some that bear more fruit than others. And the Bible tells us there will be yet others that bear no fruit at all.

So what prize do those who place after the "winner" get? Do they get punished...or do they only not win the prize?

 

[J. Jump]

So what prize do those who place after the "winner" get?

They well get what they deserve to get. There will be many positions to fill. I have no idea what specific positions they will have. The Bible says some are put over 10 cities, some over 5 cities, etc. We won't know the specifics until that day.

However what we do know is that we have to show ourselves approved! We have to run the race according to God's guidelines. If we don't then we can not expect to rule and reign with Christ.

I mean even if you look at it from a humanistic standpoint it doesn't make any sense, but less looking at it from a spiritual standpoint. I don't know of any business owner that would put a disobedient, unfaithful person in charge of their affairs. Those people get fired or never hired in the first place.

Yet Christendom thinks that folks can be disobedient, unfaithful, non-overcomers and will still have a position within the perfect kingdom of Christ. That just doesn't make an ounce of sense. If a human business owner wouldn't even put up with that, why would the King of kings and Lord of lords?

 

[DHK]

What about those that never get off the start line? Just because you line up doesn't mean you are going to take off. There are people that drop out of races all the time before the gun ever sounds.

The person who never gets to the start line is the person who has rejected the gospel and is not saved. Once you are saved you are already at the start line, if not past it.

 

[J. Jump]

But I didn't say who didn't make it to the start line. I said what about the folks that never get "off" the start line. I would agree if you don't make it to the starting line you have rejected the death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God on your behalf a sinner.

 

[DHK]

But I didn't say who didn't make it to the start line. I said what about the folks that never get "off" the start line. I would agree if you don't make it to the starting line you have rejected the death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God on your behalf a sinner.

I am not sure what you mean, unless you are speaking of a person who trusts Christ, like the thief on the cross, in the hour of his death, thus barely getting across the starting line (in a sense.)