Who Appears at the Great White Throne?

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Is this where you try to argue that being ashamed is 'like' being saved by fire?

Isaiah 30:33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

Is this talking about shame? Or does the breath of the Lord literally kindle this fire? Would I be ashamed? Assuredly, and I may yet.

See, I have no need to be ashamed. For the Word of God says that he that believes in the Lord shall not be ashamed.

 

[James_Newman]

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:27)
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Things Hard To Be Understood: 1 Cor. 9:27

The context here is not Paul’s salvation, but his Christian service. Paul was concerned that he would be castaway in the sense that he would be put on a shelf in this life or that his service would be rejected or disapproved at the judgment seat of Christ. The same Greek word is translated “rejected.” Paul was not afraid that he would be lost. He testified that he knew Christ would keep him (2Ti 1:12). What he feared was falling short of God’s high calling for his life. The context makes this plain. He is talking about running a race and winning a prize. To confuse this passage with salvation is to misunderstand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not a reward for faithful service. The Bible plainly states that salvation is by grace, and grace is the free, unmerited mercy of God (Eph 2:8-9). Anything that is merited or rewarded, is not grace (Ro 11:6). On the other hand, after we are saved by the marvelous grace of God, we are called to serve Jesus Christ. We are created in Christ Jesus “unto good works” (Eph 2:10). If a Christian is lazy and carnal, he will be chastened by the Lord (Heb 12:6-8), and if he does not respond, God will take him home (Ro 8:13; 1Co 11:30; 1Jo 5:16).

Perhaps it would be better to drop out of the race, if the Lord is just going to take me home early.

 

[Lacy Evans]

so as = like

So his works are burned up by a "kinda-like fire?"

There is a "destruction" promised (v17) to anyone who defilles the temple (his body). Is that a kinda-like destruction?

Lacy

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Tophet is a place of cremation, not purging as you have been advocating.

Are you now saying a Child of God will be cremated by God?

 

[Lacy Evans]

James,

Let me ask you a question.

If it were true that a believer could miss the Kingdom (be it hell or outer darkness) and you were one of those 'cast out', wouldn't you be ashamed that you did not please the Lord enough to be included in His Kingdom?

That's why John tells us to "abide".

1Jo 2:28 -
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

 

[James_Newman]

See, I have no need to be ashamed. For the Word of God says that he that believes in the Lord shall not be ashamed.

Thats your pat answer? Since the scripture says he that believes in the Lord shall not be ashamed, we can ignore warnings like this?
1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
The converse, that we may be ashamed at His coming if we do not abide in Him, is obviously what is being warned against.

 

[James_Newman]

Tophet is a place of cremation, not purging as you have been advocating.

Are you now saying a Child of God will be cremated by God?

I'm saying God knows fire. God created fire, He breathes fire. If God says 'like fire' you can bet it probably really is like fire.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Of course you don't get my point. Your mind is made up to believe those 'in Christ' can be cast out.

You act like I have never heard your argument before. I assure you, I have yet to hear an argument here that i didn't present myself when wrestling with this truth. The fact of the matter is that the argument of a "separated body" is completely meaningless. In an absolute sense the body is never fully together until the last day.

There is no scriptural reason why it can be separated in a temporal sense (as it has been since the first Christian either moved to a new place, was more obedient than his fellowservant, or died) now, but not during the Millennial Kingdom.

Lacy

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You act like I have never heard your argument before. I assure you, I have yet to hear an argument here that i didn't present myself when wrestling with this truth. The fact of the matter is that the argument of a "separated body" is completely meaningless. In an absolute sense the body is never fully together until the last day.

There is no scriptural reason why it can be separated in a temporal sense (as it has been since the first Christian either moved to a new place, was more obedient than his fellowservant, or died) now, but not during the Millennial Kingdom.

Lacy

Why are you wresting with the truth?

 

[Lacy Evans]

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Explain this verse as well. Why would the verse include the phrase "whosoever was not found written in the book of life", if there were none who "were" found written.

Wouldn't that be like me standing up before a class of all girls and saying, "Whoever is not a boy, line up outside the room for recess."

Or "All cats, who are not dogs, should be spayed or neutered"

The English language is not so non-sensical.


Lacy

 

[Lacy Evans]

Why are you wresting with the truth?

My flesh wrestled with it because my flesh doesn't like it.

Eph 6:12 -
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Why are you nitpicking and not answering my arguments?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Because your arguments are weak at best

 

[Lacy Evans]

Because your arguments are weak at best

Which ones? And in what way specifically?

Lacy

PS You went from "nitpicking" to "ad hominem"

 

[DQuixote]

Thank God for Linda64!! HBSMN, you're doin' good!!

1Jo 2:28 -
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

"abide in him" is declarative, not conditional. It is a statement of fact. It is akin to "rest in him." It is a confident statement. Their secure status is unquestionable. It carries the additional interpretation for the "little children" to continue to live the kind of life Jesus would have them live. Stay away from naughtiness. Be kind one to another. Do unto others. Keep the slate clean. The idea that it calls for works to maintain salvation is ........ well ........ not there.

:godisgood:

 

[James_Newman]

Thank God for Linda64!! HBSMN, you're doin' good!!



"abide in him" is declarative, not conditional. It is a statement of fact. It is akin to "rest in him." It is a confident statement. Their secure status is unquestionable. It carries the additional interpretation for the "little children" to continue to live the kind of life Jesus would have them live. Stay away from naughtiness. Be kind one to another. Do unto others. Keep the slate clean. The idea that it calls for works to maintain salvation is ........ well ........ not there.

:godisgood:

You declaring 'abide in him' to be 'declarative' does not make it so. I blame public schools. What you have there is an 'imperative'. It is giving a direct command. We are not talking about working to maintain salvation. We are talking about working to maintain sweet fellowship with the one who has saved us, in order to obtain a better resurrection.

 

[DQuixote]

.................. a better reward?

.................. an intended reward?

Declarative: stay! abide! remain! endure! stand! wait!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I cannot find anywhere stating work to obtain a better resurrection.

The Scripture speaks of some suffering to obtain a better resurrection, not working

 

[James_Newman]

Suffering is not a work? In any case suffering is a result of godly living.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

We are promised that if we suffer, what? We shall reign with Him. If we live a godly life, we will reign with Jesus. If we deny Him, He will deny us.

 

[J. Jump]

James my question got buried several pages back Just curious as to your thoughts on why a Christian who does not rule and reign with Christ will have to stand at the GWT? His/Her works have already been tried at the JSOC, so what else will be left to judge at the GWT?

 

[James_Newman]

James my question got buried several pages back Just curious as to your thoughts on why a Christian who does not rule and reign with Christ will have to stand at the GWT? His/Her works have already been tried at the JSOC, so what else will be left to judge at the GWT?

Simply because of the wording in Rev 20

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The rest of the dead is everyone who is not reigning in the kingdom, including believers. As Lacy has pointed out in this thread and many others, verse 15 makes for a very strange sentence if in fact there is no one at the GWT that is found written in the book of life. Whether or not the believers at the GWT actually go through another judgment, or if their names are just looked up in the book of life, it matters little. They still have to wait until this day to enter into life with their brethren who overcame and were reigning for the previous thousand years.