Who Are the Two Witnesses of Rev 11?

Identity of the Two Witnesses

Dear Tom,

I notice you joined in the same month as I; but you have more postings!

Your introduction is the best I have seen on the two olive trees and two
candlesticks representing (hopefully) the OT and NT Churches, i.e., the
OT body of believers that scriptures recognize as a "Church" and the NT
Church which is now being "grafted into the same Olive Tree" that was the OT Church ... that is, if my analysis should be accepted by you.

My challenge is that the NT Candlestick should have a NT prophet as its
representative just as the OT Candlestick has its Rep, i.e., Elijah. IMO, the only NT Rep that qualifies as a Prophet (who has not yet tasted death) is the Apostle John!

My Website receives the more inquiries than any other subject, into the thousands each month, for the evidence that the *Apostle John* is the NT Prophet who has not yet experienced death and who "must prophesy again before many nations, kindreds, tongues and kings". Rev.10:11.

But I disagree on your timing. The Two Witnesses will "rise up" within just 3 1/2 days of the 7th Trumpet. Contrary to the dispy teaching, that 7th Trumpet is the *Last Trump* and sounds on the *Last Day* ... the Day Christ comes in glory and power ... one of the days "after the great tribulation", i.e., one of the days after the 1260 days of *chronos-time* cease. The Two Prophets "finish their task" when the 1260 days of Chronos-Time end!! Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:

 

After reading your posts I think I am going to have rethink my belief that the two witnesses are Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

 

The Bible says that it is appointed unto man once to die. Since Enoch and Elijah never died, would it not make sense that it would be them who come back as the two witnesses so that they can meet that one appointment that all man must face?

Think about it a moment...

Enoch walked with God, as was not, for God took him. I heard a preacher once say the two walked together conversing and God finally told Enoch, 'We are much closer to my Home than yours. Come on to my House.'

Oh to be in such a fellowship with God as Enoch was!

Elijah is another one who left this earth without dying. He went up into the heavens in a chariot of fire inside a whirlwind. Talk about an experience there!

Neither man died... as we know death.

 

The Two Witnesses

StandingfirmforChrist,

Brother, some good thoughts to go by in our Christian walk!

But please do not misinterpret what it means to die "once".
Lazarus died twice. And Enoch and Elijah did not die at all.
Enoch may not die even "once" ... unless he becomes one
of the Two Witnesses!

However, more evidence points to John the Apostle having
never died than to having died ... both scripturally and
traditionally. Apostle John is qualified to "prophesy again
before many nations, kindred, tongues and kings". Rev.10:11.

Jesus suggested that John might "live until He comes". Jesus
also revealed that He is coming in Kingdom Power before He
comes in Person to resurrect the Two Prophets; and that "some
standing (T)here will not taste death until AFTER they see
His Kingdom power and authority" for 1260 days. Mark 9:1;
Rev.12:10,14.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:

 

I would agree with SFIC's logic, however the bottom line is we are not told who they are. With that being said I think when we compare Scripture with Scripture that it is a pretty safe say that Elijah will be one of them because of prophecy regarding the spirit of Elijah.

Many thought John the Baptist was Elijah come back to pave the way for the Messiah, and then a number thought Jesus was Elijah come to do the same thing. So it seems that the Jews of that day expected a return of Elijah to usher in the reign of the Messiah.

 

I agree

If this is so, then how does Elijah fit into the equasion?

I have no problem with this, however, have you heard of them representing the two priesthoods, Levitical and Melchizedek? This helps with Rev 1:20

 

Yea, including Jesus.


Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
Mat 17:11 And he answered and said, Elijah indeed cometh, and shall restore all things:
Mat 17:12 but I say into you, that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they would. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then understood the disciples that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

I believe they are the Law and Prophets as represented by Moses and Elijah.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man desireth to hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth and devoureth their enemies; and if any man shall desire to hurt them, in this manner must he be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have the power to shut the heaven, that it rain not during the days of their prophecy: and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they shall desire.

Elijah Preformed this:

2Ki 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.
2Ki 1:12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

Jam 5:17 Elijah was a man of like passions with us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain; and it rained not on the earth for three years and six months.

Moses preformed this:

Exo 7:19 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thy hand over the waters of Egypt, over their rivers, over their streams, and over their pools, and over all their ponds of water, that they may become blood; and there shall be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood and in vessels of stone.

The Law and the Prophets testified of Christ

Mat 17:2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.

But with the passing of the Old Covenant there was only Jesus:

Mat 17:8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one, save Jesus only.



Of course it all depends on what one believes the Book of Revelation is describing and to whom it is dealing with.

 

This topic was disgusted many times in my childhood home. And the conclusion I reached at that time(even before I was saved) would be in complete agreement with StandingfirminChrist.

 

But John the Baptist was not Elijah, because all things were not restored. That will happen in the future. That's why it was physically John the Baptist. He came in the spirit of Elijah, but the whole reason why it wasn't physically Elijah at that time is because God knew Israel wasn't going to accept the King and He knew the kingdom was not going to be set up.

Jesus could still say that becuase the offer of the kingdom was still open to the nation of Israel and the Israelites could have still repented and been baptized, but again God forknew that they weren't going to.

When Elijah is back in the flesh it will be to pave the way for the establishment of the kingdom. It will happen.

It hasn't happened yet. We must compare Scripture with Scripture.

 

It is a subject that is interesting to speculate on, but in reality no one knows for sure who they will be.

 

Two Witnesses

PastorSBC1303,

The Two Prophets are not only good for speculation; but they will become the most important persons in the lives of Believers for the final 1260 days!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

The most important person in the lives of the believers should forever and always be Jesus Christ.

 

:thumbs: :applause:

 

:thumbs: :applause:

 

.

Then Jesus was wrong:

Mat 17:12 but I say into you, that Elijah is come already,

Seems like a clear statement to me.

Luke in recording the birth of John says he will do exactly what Malachi said Elijah would do:

Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

It didn't say he "might".

The reason it wasn’t physically Elijah is because it was never meant to be. The disciples figured it out, eventually.

Mat 17:13 Then understood the disciples that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Then that makes Daniel's prophecy wrong as well when he prophesied when the Kingdom would be established. Just exactly where does it state the Kingdom was conditional on Jewish acceptance? It is His Kingdom, not the Jew's Kingdom.

What scripture did you compare with other scripture? It sure wasn’t Malachi with Luke and Matthew.

 

The principle of double-fulfillment of prophecy is being demonstrated perfectly in the example of John the Baptist. Just because he was a partial fulfillment of the prophecy of Elijah coming to first restore all things does not mean there is not a future literal fulfillment of the prophecy to come.

 

Where may we find this principle in scripture? How many prophecies have double-fulfillment? Which ones are they and who decides which ones they are? If double fulfillment is allowed how about triple?

But I'm glad to see you believe that John was the Elijah of Malachi. Since John was Elijah, what "Day of the Lord" occured in that time-frame?

 

It was a partial fulfillment, the day of the Lord did not occur. Lets see if we can find any prophecies that had double fulfillments.

Isaiah 7
11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Here is the near-term partial fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 8:3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bore a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz.

but we are told that Jesus' birth was the fulfillment of that prophecy

Matthew 1:22-23
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Was Isaiah 7:14 not a sign to Ahaz?

 

This is a cross-post, I didn't read the post of Bro James_Newman until
AFTER my posting.

Grasshopper: //Where may we find this principle in scripture?//

Frequently the fulfillment of a prophecy is NOT in scripture.
So this principle isn't frequently found in scripture but
is found among those with the ability to count to TWO
or higher.

Isa 7:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
Therefore the Lord himselfe shal giue you a signe:
Behold, a Uirgine shall conceiue
and beare a Sonne,
and shall call his name Immanuel.

First Fulfillment:
Isa 8:3 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I went vnto the Prophetesse,
and shee conceiued and bare a sonne,
then said the Lord to mee,
Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz.

Second Fulfillment:
Mat 1:23 (KJV1611 Edition):
Behold, a Uirgin shall be with childe,
and shall bring foorth a sonne,
and they shall call his name Emmanuel,
which being interpreted, is, God with vs.)



Grasshopper: //How many prophecies have double-fulfillment?//

More now than 2,000 years ago.
More at the end of the literal/physical Millinnial Messanic Kingdom
than now.


Grasshopper: //Which ones are they and who decides which ones they are?//

Your prophile lists you as a Baptist.
You know Baptist Doctrine.
You get to decide which one(s) are double fulfilled -
you have the role within the doctrine: Priesthood of the Believer.

Grasshopper: //If double fulfillment is allowed how about triple?//

What about prophicies that are fulfilled in the life of Billions
of Christians? Aren't they BILLION fullment prophecies.
Whosover will may come.