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Who did Christ die for? part//

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007.

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  1. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    My last post on the now closed thread...

     
    #1 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  2. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Sorry, but I just had to post this from Allan so I could reply. This comes from the other thread as well.

    Who said man detetmines? You did Allan.

    Read it for yourself near the end of the post at this link....
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1117669&postcount=262

    :)



    Are you saying you believe God does not love us 1st? Are you saying Gods love is based on our works?

    Please Allan..you know better. Read the book of James. You love is why your action is. Without action, how can you say you have faith. Its not BASED on works, works are proof of faith.

    [/QUOTE]
    That is not true Allan and you know it. Murder is wrong even if one does not know murder is wrong. Case in point. Was the law around when Cain killed? Did Cain sin?

    Says you...but the Bible will disagree with you. John 3:17


    I agree...as do all Calvinist.


    Now why would you ask this? Of course there are more then one type of love. 1Cor is speaking of agape. agape type of love never fails, and this is how God loves us.

    Now one thing you may have past over...
    agape does not rejoice in iniquity.

    What is so funny? I didn't write it..God did. Do you not believe it?

    Yes. What this means Allan is love follows God not your will.
    Christ prayed.."Not My Will, But YOUR WILL Be Done" ...proving this to be true.

    By using verse? Try to do this yourself.


    .

    :applause:

    thats all for now...
     
    #2 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2007
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    James, just exactly what is wogwash? :laugh:

    I'm just pickin' on ya 'til Allan gets here. :)
     
    #3 Amy.G, Oct 25, 2007
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    So is taking another man's wife, yet God did not hold Abimelech guilty for taking Abraham's wife. God said He kept Abimelech from sinning against Him, even when Abimelech admitted he did sin against Abraham. Hmmm...
    Obviously knowledge of sin, or the blatant breaking of God's Law is required to be held guilty of such sin.
     
    #4 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2007
  5. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Its Greek Any...I only speak in high Bible language you know. :)

    To tell you the truth Amy, I really don't know. I just here it used ....meaning ...well...I guess it means that statement is worth the price of water used to wash pigs.
     
    #5 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Wasn't he deceived by Abraham?

    And if God "keeps" someone from sinning that sounds an awfully lot like ...............The Sovereignty of God! :eek:
     
    #6 Amy.G, Oct 25, 2007
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  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Yes he was, but that still does not discount the act of what Abimelech did. Knowledge of sin is what God holds us accountable for. James says knowledge is not needed, that sin is sin ("murder is wrong even if one does not know murder is wrong").
    I don't think I've ever denied God's sovereignty in the 2 years I've been here ;)
    Is taking another man's wife sin...or not?
     
    #7 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2007
  8. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Good point Webdog...

    If God "withhold" Abimelech from sinning against Him...and God did do this as you have well said
    ....then He enacted against Abimelech's will, which proves God can over ride mans will.

    But if God had not withheld, as in the case of Cain, then Abimelech own will would have expressed itself and sinned. And yes, he would be guilty as Cain was.


    Now why Abimelech and why not Cain?
     
    #8 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Was Abimelech taking Abraham's wife sin or not? Why does Abimelech admit he sinned after the fact?

    "murder (or insert sin here) is wrong even if one does not know murder (or insert sin here) is wrong".
     
    #9 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
  10. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    You said it was not sin. Are you now saying it was?
     
    #10 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I believed I asked you...

    "murder (or insert sin here) is wrong even if one does not know murder (or insert sin here) is wrong".
     
    #11 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    I have never changed my words. Sin is sin, even if you do not know. The same as in speeding in your state. If you do not know...the police will still write a ticket.

    The same as Cain and his murder. no?
     
    #12 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    If what you said above is true...you have made God a liar, because He stated He kept Abimelech from sinning against Him. AFTER Abimelech knew who Sarah was THEN he realized it was a sin, and rightly called it such. This passage makes that very clear.
     
    #13 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
  14. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    :BangHead: :BangHead:

    So how does my view make God a liar?
     
    #14 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    *sigh*
    I don't think you'll ever see it...

    3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream one night and said to him, "You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken; she is a married woman."

    4 Now Abimelech had not gone near her, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation? 5 Did he not say to me, 'She is my sister,' and didn't she also say, 'He is my brother'? I have done this with a clear conscience and clean hands." 6 Then God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let you touch her.

    You say "murder (or insert sin here) is wrong even if one does not know murder (or insert sin here) is wrong". God says different here.
     
    #15 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2007
  16. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    I agree.



    .
    And it was also a sin before Abimelech knew it was a sin.


    If I hear you write, you are claiming if Man does not know sin is sin....then it is not.

    So...if we follow your lead we need to keep Bibles from all non-believers...so they will never sin. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Get real
     
    #16 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  17. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    I sure hope you will tell me.

    What part do you have a problem with?

    It was sin to sleep with a married lady.
    Abimelech did not know...still it was a sin.
    God said..she is married...and it is a sin.
    Abimelech said...but I didn't know she was married.
    God said...I know you didn't know...that is why I told you she was married.
    It was STILL a sin to sleep with a married lady before and after


    yes I do..

    He does not. show me where he says this?

    Well...i thought you was going to show me. Man...I'm so disappointed. You had my hopes up. I was hoping you had a point. :)

    ( I hope you know I'm just ribbing ya)
     
    #17 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2007
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Oh, but God says He was going to KILL him because Abimelech took a married woman...not slept with her! Was Abimelech taking Sarah as a wife sin? Did God keep Abimelech from sinning? How can one have a clear conscience if one has sinned? Hmm...
     
    #18 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
  19. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    You keep going back and forth. Why?

    Did Abimelech sin or not? Or is this more of your pointless games?
     
    #19 Jarthur001, Oct 25, 2007
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No games. You can't answer it, or it will kill your theological stance. That's cool...
     
    #20 webdog, Oct 25, 2007
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