Who first laid claim to the term 'Baptist"?

[14strings]

Greetings good sirs, I have come to appeal to the collected knowledge of this forum for the answer to a couple of questions, both to satisfy my own curiosity and to settle some things concerning the history of the Baptists that I am not sure that I understand.

1). Can someone refer me to an historical account or documentation of any church to come out from or be organized by the congregation led by Thomas Helwys?

2). Can someone refer me to an historical account or documentation of any church to come out from or be organized by the congregation led by John Spilsbury?

3). Can some one refer me to an historical account or documentation of the first church to use the term or address itself as 'Baptist'?

Concerning the term Baptist, I am mostly confident that term was not used by Helwys, although if that is incorrect I would to be so shown. If Mr Spilsbury or others subsequent to him addressed themselves as such I would like to know from whence that information may be referenced or quoted.

Thank You,
14

 

[atpollard]

John in the Gospels was the first to lay claim to the term.

(Ironically, he was also the first to break from the TEMPLE tradition of Paedo-circumcision and stress the need for Credobaptism as the cornerstone of the Kingdom. His cousin, Jesus, seems to have agreed in His conversation with Nicodemus.)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

John in the Gospels was the first to lay claim to the term.

(Ironically, he was also the first to break from the TEMPLE tradition of Paedo-circumcision and stress the need for Credobaptism as the cornerstone of the Kingdom. His cousin, Jesus, seems to have agreed in His conversation with Nicodemus.)

Good! What a relief not to be lumped in with apostate churches. thanks Jesus !

 

[14strings]

John in the Gospels was the first to lay claim to the term.

(Ironically, he was also the first to break from the TEMPLE tradition of Paedo-circumcision and stress the need for Credobaptism as the cornerstone of the Kingdom. His cousin, Jesus, seems to have agreed in His conversation with Nicodemus.)

Thanks, but as far as I can tell from reading John was not a church.

 

[atpollard]

Thanks, but as far as I can tell from reading John was not a church.

Was Thomas Helwys a church? Was John Spilsbury a church? (The OP specifically asked about them).

How about THIS:

Acts 19:1-7 [NIV]
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied.

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

So John had “no church”, but managed to send out 12 missionaries to Ephesus. Not too shabby, huh.

 

[atpollard]

According to Charles W. Lyons:

”Baptists are not self-named. Our persecutors began using this label in derision beginning in the 1400’s.”

 

[atpollard]

The History of Baptist Churches - The Trail of Blood

 

[14strings]

Was Thomas Helwys a church? Was John Spilsbury a church? (The OP specifically asked about them).

How about THIS:

Acts 19:1-7 [NIV]
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied.

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

So John had “no church”, but managed to send out 12 missionaries to Ephesus. Not too shabby, huh.

No, not shabby in the least, but you are answering questions that I did not ask. Thanks, all the same.

 

[14strings]

According to Charles W. Lyons:

”Baptists are not self-named. Our persecutors began using this label in derision beginning in the 1400’s.”

I agree that Baptists are not self-named. 1400's seems a bit early. But at some point, Baptists started putting that term on their signs, charters, and letterheads, I would like to know when that started. A nice historical record or documentation, if one can be found. In the 1644 Confession those 7 churches did not acknowledge the term 'Baptist'. They professed to be Churches of Christ, and they repudiated the term Anabaptist. There is no mention of the term Baptist in either accepting or rejecting the term. They ignored it completely, as if it wasn't in use at all in 1644. When was the term first applied? And by whom? and to whom?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

According to Charles W. Lyons:

”Baptists are not self-named. Our persecutors began using this label in derision beginning in the 1400’s.”

Correct

 

[atpollard]

I agree that Baptists are not self-named. 1400's seems a bit early. But at some point, Baptists started putting that term on their signs, charters, and letterheads, I would like to know when that started. A nice historical record or documentation, if one can be found. In the 1644 Confession those 7 churches did not acknowledge the term 'Baptist'. They professed to be Churches of Christ, and they repudiated the term Anabaptist. There is no mention of the term Baptist in either accepting or rejecting the term. They ignored it completely, as if it wasn't in use at all in 1644. When was the term first applied? And by whom? and to whom?

What about Rhode Island? I know the state was founded by a Baptist Minister and championed the cause of religious tolerance when other colonies were establishing official State Churches. Its Baptist Church and Jewish Synogige go back to the 1600’s if I remember correctly.

You could research whether they used the term.

As at least ONE irrefutable point of reference, is this 1789 magazine:

 

[atpollard]

Here is a reference to OTHERS calling the re-baptizes “Baptists” in 1524 (which makes the origin of the term in the 1400’s not implausible):

Cardinal Hosius (Catholic,A.D.1524), President of the Council of Trent:
"Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they wold swarm in greater number than all the Reformers." (Hosius, Letters, Apud Opera, pages 112, 113.)

I leave it to you to confirm the reference for yourself since YOU are the one that cares so deeply. As I said, John the Baptist was the FIRST use of the term and he used it for the exact same reason that Modern Baptists use the term - immersion of adult believers as a sign of repentance and rebirth from the old life to a new life Via faith in CHRIST.

 

[14strings]

Here is a reference to OTHERS calling the re-baptizes “Baptists” in 1524 (which makes the origin of the term in the 1400’s not implausible):

Cardinal Hosius (Catholic,A.D.1524), President of the Council of Trent:
"Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they wold swarm in greater number than all the Reformers." (Hosius, Letters, Apud Opera, pages 112, 113.)

I leave it to you to confirm the reference for yourself since YOU are the one that cares so deeply. As I said, John the Baptist was the FIRST use of the term and he used it for the exact same reason that Modern Baptists use the term - immersion of adult believers as a sign of repentance and rebirth from the old life to a new life Via faith in CHRIST.

Thank you for the reference.

 

[Jerome]

The word Hosius used was not Baptists, but Anabaptists:

 

[atpollard]

The word Hosius used was not Baptists, but Anabaptists:

At this point, I think he will need to restrict his search to ENGLISH since on a pendantic level any pre-English BAPTIST will be in another language and for that reason not be an exact match to "Baptist" used on a Church Sign and stationary (the stated goal). My money in on Rhode Island after 1630 and before 1789 ... whenever First Baptist Church started calling itself the "Baptist" Meeting House rather than the more common "congregationalist" nomenclature to identify "Credobaptists" of the era.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Newhouse Baptist Church is one of the oldest Baptist congregations in England. I am occasionally asked to preach there and I was there on Saturday to celebrate the induction of a new minister. Early History of Newhouse Baptist Church - Newhouse Baptist Church
The plaque shown in the link clearly states that the church was founded as a Particular Baptist church, but I will ask the former minister, who is a good friend of mine, if the original founding documents (if they still exist) contain the word "Baptist."

The very earliest churches (pre-English Civil War) will have avoided the use of the word "Baptist" because of fear of supposed connection with the Anabaptists, who were distrusted and abominated because of the calamity at Munster in Germany in 1534-5. Münster rebellion - Wikipedia

 

[atpollard]

Newhouse Baptist Church is one of the oldest Baptist congregations in England. I am occasionally asked to preach there and I was there on Saturday to celebrate the induction of a new minister. Early History of Newhouse Baptist Church - Newhouse Baptist Church
The plaque shown in the link clearly states that the church was founded as a Particular Baptist church, but I will ask the former minister, who is a good friend of mine, if the original founding documents (if they still exist) contain the word "Baptist."

The very earliest churches (pre-English Civil War) will have avoided the use of the word "Baptist" because of fear of supposed connection with the Anabaptists, who were distrusted and abominated because of the calamity at Munster in Germany in 1534-5. Münster rebellion - Wikipedia

I thought about the early Baptists in the UK, but thought trepidation over Anglicans might have made them slower to embrace the term than Baptists in America ... nothing like an OCEAN between you and those that might want to attack you to make one bolder.