Who first published Sweet Songster and Thomas Hymnals

I was taking a nap.

I think the publication data above is correct. As for the inspiration, alterations of hymns etc., I am unable to say. I do suspect that some of the hymns in both books, particularly in the Thomas have been incorrectly attributed to Watts and others. Thomas and D. H. Goble both seem to have had the opinion that if a hymn was in Watt's hymnal, he wrote it, which isn't true.

When I reworked the Goble hymnal for a large print edition, I tried to correct as much of that misinformation as I could ferret out. See http://www.lulu.com/content/95100 if you are interested in that. It sells for what it costs to print, so I'm not making any money on it.

I was approached once about reworking the Thomas in large print, but never pursued it. Is there any interest in such a thing?

Jeff

 

The dates that Stephen gives are correct. I've not been able to find much about either of the men who published these books. From a Billups genealogist, I have the following:

"Edw W. was the son of Edward and Susan Webster Billups. He was born in 1800 -probably in the part of Va. that became West Virginia. The first time I found any info was when he married Elizabeth Beach in Kanawha Co 16 Jan 1822,
They were still there in 1830 and 1840 census. They had 4 sons in 1830. He showed up on the 1850 Putnam Co census- probably never moved as
Putnam was formed in the 1840's and his part of Kanawha Co became Putnam. On the 1850 census he had 4 children -all born in the 1830's.
His wife had died as he was a widower, Baptist Minister.

His father was still living in Putnam 1850 census. He died and his Will was read in 1853. Evidently Edward W. sold his large land inheritance to have the money to publish "The Sweet Songster" in 1854.

Some of Edw W.'s sons lived in Lawrence County OHIO- so I find Edw W living near them in the 1860 census. He was 60 years old--a book
peddler. This is the last time I found him. His children probably buried him near their mother---BUT WHERE."

I haven't been able to determine what "kind" of Baptist Billups was, but from the limited information available I think Regular Baptist.

E. D. Thomas was a Regular Baptist, the pastor of the Regular Baptist Church in Danville, Indiana at the time the hymn book was published (or at least the ninth edition). According to the book his first name was Erasmus and he was an elder.

Regular Baptist at this time is before the Primitives and Old Regulars split, if I understand correctly. Even today in that part of the country, I believe the Primitives are prone to use the term Regular.

 

Bro. Bob,

I've been in contact with the Iron Hill Association and over the past couple of years several of them have stated that they still get new books every year. I am told that a moderator of a small United Baptist association in KY sells them. Iron Hill also has their own book of songs not found in other books, so I'm told.

David

 

Bro Vaughn,

I wasn't aware of a split between Primitives and Old Regulars, or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

David

 

Bro. David, Robert, et.al.

The term Regular is still used among primitives in some parts of Appalachia. For example the Mate's Creek Association, centered in eastern Kentucky calls itself, "Regular Primitive Baptist." Some "Regular" baptist churches have the appelation "Regular Primitive" in their church constitutions, but have dropped the Primitive when self-identifying.

Two divisions occurred in Appalachia between "Regulars" and "Primitives." The first in the aftermath of the American Civil War, was over politics. typically those called regulars at that time sided with the North and those called Primitives with the Confederacy. Large scale excommunications ensued depending on which side was in the majority. Another division took place, IIRC about 1894, over the extent of election. the Primitives generally were called hardshells, with the Regulars being called softshells. Rufus Parrigan did a book covering this division several years ago. It is a very tough book to find.

As for an unflattering review of Billups' Sweet Songster. I would not give it a very high review either, but that is because of the heavy alteration of the hymns it contains. The racism expressed there in was more or less a common problem among many hymnals of the day. Doesn't make it right, but does make it understood.

 

Stephen, thanks for linking the review of the Sweet Songster. I had not seen that before. With Jeff, I agree and prefer hymn books stick to the originals without alteration, as much as is possible. I "like" the high-toned arrogance of the reviewer about as much as he liked the Sweet Songster!

In addition to what Jeff said, I know of some Primitive Baptists in OH, IN, IL region that seem to prefer the term "Regular" over "Primitive". David, here is a link that gives some info on what I was thinking of as the late 1800s/early 1900s split of Old Regulars and Primitives. Jeff and Bob can probably comment with more first hand knowledge than the rest of us. Perhaps this is different. Since one group wanted a Sunday School this might not truly represent the Old Regular position.

Trial and Decision of Mt. Carmel Church

ALTERNATIVE LINK TO PITTMAN

According to Pittman, "In this division a new denomination was formed, known in this section as Regular Baptists, having entirely discarded the name Primitive, or Old School."

[ March 10, 2006, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: rsr ]

 

I guess it's safe to say that the term "Regular" is used broadly, but tends to be meant in the old time way.

I was reading Perrigan's History of Regular Baptist and he states that the churches that started Sardis broke from Mates Creek. When they did have their first meeting to start the association, they did have delegates from New Salem involved. To me, that depicts they started back at square one in the Old Regular line. Any thoughts?

I know that my understanding of Old Regular History isn't strong but I'm glad for the Perrigan book!

RSR:
Thanks for that link about the Sweet Songster. I also think the critic sounds arrogant. I guess you can't please everybody

David

 

Bro Bob,

I apologize for coming off disagreeable with how I sounded earlier. I meant no offense to what you gave or to what knowledge you have. I appreciate that information to add to what little I have in my possession.

I have very little knowledge of Old Regulars other than my mother's family started and attended a church in New Salem, so Bro Vaughn's comment (and not to forget Bro Jeff) about the Primitive and Old Regular split was new to me.

I wondered about Perrigan's comment after reading what you wrote and I thank you for the insight to understand what information he was limited to. That helps alot.

David

 

My dad has a Sweet Songster given to him back in the 60s. My old home church normally uses the New Bapist Song Book and another book called Some of Our Favorite Songs. We typically call it the Old Regular songbook.

David