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Who was Jesus praying for in John 10?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by BD17, Jun 5, 2006.

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  1. BD17

    BD17 New Member

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    I was reading john 10 yesterday and would like to know who people here on this board think Jesus was praying for in the Garden? I know many "calvinists" quote the verse where Jesus says He prays "not for the world but for the onesyou have given me" as a proof text for election. I do not think it is, if you read the entire prayer it seems to me that he is praying for his disciples, and that they will be protected in His abscence.


    What does everyone here think?

    Let me make it clear that I too believe in the Five points and the Doctrine of grace. I just do not think this particular place applies as a proof text for the U.
     
    #1 BD17, Jun 5, 2006
  2. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    #2 Marcia, Jun 5, 2006
  3. DorthyMontine

    DorthyMontine New Member

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    Yes, it was in John 17.

    I understand He was praying for his disciples, more specificially, the 11...as Judas was never a true disciple, rather a 'son of perdition'. (See vs. 12)

    Yet, He also prayed for future believers. For we read in verse 20:

    "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word."

    Edited to add:

    I didn't mean that he was ONLY praying for the 11, just that I see a specific intercession for those who had a special commission, if you will.
     
    #3 DorthyMontine, Jun 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2006
  4. BD17

    BD17 New Member

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    Yes I meant John 17, thank you for the correction. One of those times when you are looking at one thing and think it at the same time.
     
    #4 BD17, Jun 6, 2006
  5. Cix

    Cix New Member

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    Jesus is praying for his disciples.
     
    #5 Cix, Jun 7, 2006
  6. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    I think this is an important point to bring up in regard to the whole discussion of Calvinism because this question reveals that there was indeed individual election taking place. Here is something very important to understand. When Jesus was here he didn't want the Jews to come to faith in Him as their savior and Lord. In fact, he went so far as to hid the secrets of the kingdom in parables so that those on the outside wouldn't hear and repent (Mk 4). (which in and of itself presents a great problem for the doctrine of Total Depravity).

    God had selected a "remnant" from Israel to be on the "inside" and to receive these secrets. These were the chosen apostles. They were individually elected for this noble task, while the rest of Israel were hardened in their rebellion and used for common purposes. Calvinist often mistaken passages having to do with this historical context as proof texts for their dogma, but they are mistaken.

    Christ chose individuals from Israel to carry the message to ALL MEN! He also hardened Israel so as to graft in the Gentiles and bring about the crucifixion. Don't be misled. The hardening of Israel was temporary and those hardened are not the "non-elect reprobates" that Calvinists make them out to be in Romans 9, but they are the Jews who may be provoked and saved if they leave their unbelief. (Rm. 11:11-26)
     
    #6 Skandelon, Jun 7, 2006
  7. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Through verse 19, he is praying for his disciples. In verse 20, he shifts over to pray for all believers - for "those who will believe in me through their word" - the preaching of the apostles.

    I don't see anything either pro or anti Calvinistic here. <sigh>
     
    #7 Marcia, Jun 7, 2006
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