Who Won The Debate? Reviews Go To Obama

[KenH]

Having been proven wrong through objective evidence

No, I have not been proven wrong.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Was John looking at Senator Obama when he said it?

I don't know. I talk to people all the time that I am not looking at. You said he refused to even acknowledge him. Yet that is clearly wrong. He did directly address him.

BTW, both John and Mr. Obama are U.S. Senators.

I know.

Your "elders" stuff won't work in the context of the debate.

Obama was born Aug 4, 1961; McCain was born Aug 29, 1936. My math skills are admittedly rusty, but that looks like 25 years to me. So McCain being 25 years older than Obama is his elder. Perhaps you, being an accountant if I recall correctly, can do the math better. Let me know what number you come up with.

 

[Pastor Larry]

No, I have not been proven wrong.

So you deny that McCain shook Obama's hand? You deny that he responded to Obama's comments? You deny that directly addressed Obama?

 

[KenH]

Can you show me an example of Obama keeping his head in a critical situation requiring an immediate response with the national interests of our country and the lives of it's citizens in the balance?

No, and no one can do so for Senator McCain. Neither man has been president of the United States. Neither had Ronald Reagan before he became president of the United States.

I am referring to how the American people perceive a candidate. Ronald Reagan had to pass that threshold in 1980 and he did so. Barack Obama had to pass that threshold in 2008 and he did so. If you don't believe me, then just pay attention to the polls next week.

 

[KenH]

that looks like 25 years to me

So are you saying that John should have referred to Barack as Barack and that Barack should have referred to John as Mr. McCain based on their age difference?

BTW, I don't recall you criticizing Senator Obama during the primary debates for calling Senator Clinton, Hillary.

 

[targus]

No, and no one can do so for Senator McCain. Neither man has been president of the United States. Neither had Ronald Reagan before he became president of the United States.

I am referring to how the American people perceive a candidate. Ronald Reagan had to pass that threshold in 1980 and he did so. Barack Obama had to pass that threshold in 2008 and he did so. If you don't believe me, then just pay attention to the polls next week.

Well I think that we should drop a cruise missle on any known terrorist camp anywhere in the world.

Hey, I just passed the KenH commander-in-chief test.

Cool:thumbs:


BTW - as someone else pointed out - you keep telling us what the American people think. What is your basis for this? Polls?

 

[ajg1959]

Everyone keeps saying that Obama has a better grasp on economic policy, but that wasnt how he struck me last night.

McCain kept stressing that we need to cut back on spending. And from Obama's past statements the only spending cutbacks he proposes are on defense. IMO, cutting spending would lessen the gap between what we collect through taxes, and how much we spend, thus lowering the deficit.

Obama kept stressing that we need to cut taxes. He opposed McCain on spending cuts, but he claims he can provide health care for everyone, increase social and education programs, and still cut taxes for 95% of American families??????? How does that make sense? Increase spending, and cut taxes? Wont that increase the deficit?

I know that Obama proposes to raise the taxes on corporations (especially the oil companies), but dont all business's pass the cost of operations on to the consumer? So who really pays? We do, whether it is through direct taxation, or through inflated consumer prices to cover the corporate tax increases....it is still us that pays.

I agree with McCain, he said that Bush and this congress has let spending get out of control.

Cutting back on spending is the long term answer, redistribution of taxation is merely a band aid that will eventually catch up to all of us.

AJ

 

[KenH]

So you deny that McCain shook Obama's hand? You deny that he responded to Obama's comments? You deny that directly addressed Obama?

Pastor Larry, you are an intelligent man. I know that you understand the valid point I made. I will not go down this rabbit trail with you.

 

[Pastor Larry]

So are you saying that John should have referred to Barack as Barack and that Barack should have referred to John as Mr. McCain based on their age difference?

No. I think they should have referred to each other as "Senator" or "my friend" or "my opponent."

BTW, I don't recall you criticizing Senator Obama during the primary debates for calling Senator Clinton, Hillary.

As we have shown, your recall isn't all that great. This debate was less than 24 hours ago and you can't even recall that McCain did acknowledge Obama and did so in clear and unmistakeable ways.

But you are correct in this particular case, probably more by luck than knowledge. I didn't spend more than five minutes watching or reading about primary debates. I think they were a waste of time (just as this one was). Obama should have agreed to weekly townhall meetings. But for some reason, he didn't seem to want to face the music.

So the point is that I didn't know Obama did that. He should not have. The fact that he did it and continues to shows yet again his lack of surrounding himself with good people. It is yet another example that he is not fit nor prepared.

 

[targus]

Obama has also said that he is going to save social security by lifting the cap on taxable wages for social security.

At the same time he says that he wants to limit how much CEOs can earn.

How do you tax higher incomes while at the same time putting a limit on how much someone can earn?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Pastor Larry, you are an intelligent man.

I usually leave that others to affirm or deny. But your affirmation doesn't carry a lot of weight, to be honest.

I know that you understand the valid point I made. I will not go down this rabbit trail with you.

I understand your point. That is how I was able to respond to it with objective facts that demonstrate your point was not valid. Your saying it is valid does not make it so. It was not valid and has been demonstrated so. And the fact that you want to run from it rather than address it makes your fit to be a politician.

Why not simply admit you overspoke with hyperbole and should have shown more careful judgment?

 

[KenH]

But you are correct in this particular case, probably more by luck than knowledge.

As a college professor of mine used to say, "I'd rather be lucky than good any time". In this case, though, I am good. :laugh:

 

[LadyEagle]

What I didn't like was how Obama misquoted Henry Kissinger & was glad McCain called him on it. Friends for 35 years would seem to me that McCain knows more about what Henry Kissinger thinks than the new junior senator on the block who hasn't hung around the Hill much.

 

[here now]

Was John looking at Senator Obama when he said it?

BTW, both John and Mr. Obama are U.S. Senators. Your "elders" stuff won't work in the context of the debate.

Ken, are you trying to be inflammatory with you reference to McCain and Obama? In your statement, you refer to McCain as John and to Obama as Mr. Obama and Senator Obama.

 

[ajg1959]

I dont understand why Obama thinks that poor folks carry too much of the tax burden.

I have a family of 3 and I dont pay any taxes at all until I make over something like $32,000/year, so in fact I pay very little Federal Tax. I pay way more state and local taxes.

And I know that I am not even close to the bottom of wage earners in this country, there is a large percentage of folks that make even less than I do. So, just who are these poor people that are carrying the burden?

Does anyone have the breakdown of how much tax is actually paid, and by whom?

AJ

 

[KenH]

"One should be prepared to negotiate, and I think we should be prepared to negotiate about Iran," Kissinger, who brokered the end of the 1973 Yom Kippur war and peace talks with the North Vietnamese, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. Asked whether he meant the U.S. should hold direct talks, Kissinger, 84, responded: "Yes, I think we should."

- http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/1,5620,695261802,00.html?printView=true

KISSINGER: Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic...

- http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/20/se.01.html

 

[KenH]

Ken, are you trying to be inflammatory with you reference to McCain and Obama?

No, I was not. I was having some fun with Pastor Larry in our sidebar discussion.

 

[targus]

Well, KenH - It appears that Henry Kissinger disagrees with both you and Obama on this one.

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner...bama-wrong-kissingers-position-debate-tonight


No doubt you will now go on instist that you know better what Kissinger is saying than Kissinger...

As well as what the American people think about it.

 

[here now]

No, I was not. I was having some fun with Pastor Larry in our sidebar discussion.

:thumbs: Okay, all's good.

 

[KenH]

Well, KenH

Then what do you make of the quotes I provided from Mr. Kissinger?