I was scrolling through a thread and noticed the comment made that someone "got saved" because they knew they needed Jesus or they were going to hell. How do you guys respond to something like that? I get kind of a wierd feeling that maybe they are missing something. When you decide to follow Jesus, are you doing it to aviod hell, or because you realize you were created to be in relationship with the Creator? There is more to it, such as glorifying God with your life, having a truly abundant life because of Jesus, needing forgivenness for your sins from God, etc. I get that. However, I wonder if we are sending the wrong message if the first thing we tell people is that they need Jesus so they won't go to hell. It's as if that is all Christianity offers people; a ticket out of hell. Any thoughts?
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Why are you saved?
- Thread starter dan e.
- Start date
dan e. said:
Responding to Jesus' call to save yourself by turning to God is never wrong. Heck, its part of Jesus' evangelism. Repentance is vital because its the whole point of why we need God. If you are in sin, you go to hell. You need to be saved from Hell (which is the punishment for sin). Self preservation is acceptable to Christ. Why do you have a problem with it?
Mark 1:15
"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"
Luke 13:4-6
4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
Jesus doesn't have a problem with this part of the message and we shouldn't either. Unless we judge Christ.
The problem is two-fold. There are two many that don't actually understand what the salvation message is and what one has to do and what one can not do. Then speaking from a Baptist perspective there are too many folks that are Bible notchers in that they "win" someone for or to Jesus however you want to say it and then they think there job is done. So there is a real lack of discipleship that goes on.
People think that once you are "saved" you are good to go and it's on to the next unsaved person.
While I think evangelism is a good thing I think there is an unbalanced emphasis placed on evangelism with real discipleship left lacking.
People think that once you are "saved" you are good to go and it's on to the next unsaved person.
While I think evangelism is a good thing I think there is an unbalanced emphasis placed on evangelism with real discipleship left lacking.
Because Jesus' sole mission wasn't to keep us from hell...but to give us an abundant life (John 10:10), so that we would have joy in the here and now, as well as the future (John 15:9-11). God created us so that we will LIVE in Him, and we would not only have hope for the future, but joy in the present. You are correct, if we live according to the flesh we will die (Romans 8:13), but if by the spirit, we will live (Romans 8:13). This doesn't just mean you won't go to hell versus you will go to hell. The gospel isn't only an answer for the end, but it is what transforms us now. It begins the process of being conformed to the image of Jesus NOW. So, when I hear, "I got saved because I knew I had to or I would go to hell", I think......"is that person experiencing Jesus now? Or is he/she content with not going to hell"? That is all I'm saying. I don't disagree with the things you said.
Well I think there are a lot of Christians that are content with that, because that is what they have been taught is the ultimate. They don't think there is anything, but a waiting game left until your number is dialed up on the take me out of here meter or the rapture comes. And we can see what a lack of discipleship has brought about in the realm of Christendom. We are smack dab in the middle of lukewarm Christianity and it will only get worse from here
It was me who made that comment mentioned in the OP I think.
Maybe I should do a little explaining. When I came to that conclusion, it was the culmination of months and months of conviction by the Holy Spirit. You see, I had never really been taught about God's anger at sin, His holy hatred of it. I was always taught if you were good, you went to heaven, if you were bad, you went to hell. Nothing about atonement or faith or the real Gospel at all. So as far as I knew, I was in a place that only mercy and grace could bring me out of. I'd done evil in the Lord's sight, and sinned against Him, and the very One I had so hated and blasphemed was the only One who could save me from His divine wrath, that I deserved.
To echo Spurgeon, I basically said, "Lord, save, or I perish."
I know now that it was God's grace and mercy that brought me to that point, and to from there to Christ's cross. I probably didn't really explain it well enough in the post that was mentioned. Basically, I had to die before I was born again. It's not something that I can accurately explain, at least not at this moment.
Hope this helps a little.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin
Maybe I should do a little explaining. When I came to that conclusion, it was the culmination of months and months of conviction by the Holy Spirit. You see, I had never really been taught about God's anger at sin, His holy hatred of it. I was always taught if you were good, you went to heaven, if you were bad, you went to hell. Nothing about atonement or faith or the real Gospel at all. So as far as I knew, I was in a place that only mercy and grace could bring me out of. I'd done evil in the Lord's sight, and sinned against Him, and the very One I had so hated and blasphemed was the only One who could save me from His divine wrath, that I deserved.
To echo Spurgeon, I basically said, "Lord, save, or I perish."
I know now that it was God's grace and mercy that brought me to that point, and to from there to Christ's cross. I probably didn't really explain it well enough in the post that was mentioned. Basically, I had to die before I was born again. It's not something that I can accurately explain, at least not at this moment.
Hope this helps a little.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin
Dustin, my intent was not to aim this thread specifically at you....but that comment did make me wonder if we are sending the wrong message about salvation. Sure, salvation means eternal life, freedom from the consequences of sin....but there is more than that. It just got me thinking. No intention to point at you.
Billwald, what I mean is that if a person's answer for being saved is that they now don't go to hell, are they experiencing Jesus now? I've got to tell you, talking with nonbelievers, I speak so much about how Jesus is changing me now, how life makes sense, has purpose, gives meaning, is full of joy. I hope that Christians can talk with nonbelievers about the joys of living with Jesus now.....not just that they are now not going to hell.
Billwald, what I mean is that if a person's answer for being saved is that they now don't go to hell, are they experiencing Jesus now? I've got to tell you, talking with nonbelievers, I speak so much about how Jesus is changing me now, how life makes sense, has purpose, gives meaning, is full of joy. I hope that Christians can talk with nonbelievers about the joys of living with Jesus now.....not just that they are now not going to hell.
I understand your concern, but I think its the wrong question.
Jesus tell us to submit our live to him and the biggest hope is life complete in Heaven and being free from sin that damns you to Hell.
Realizing what you've been saved from is just as important as what you gain by repenting. It's all part of the Gospel. You cannot have one without the other.
Jesus tell us to submit our live to him and the biggest hope is life complete in Heaven and being free from sin that damns you to Hell.
Realizing what you've been saved from is just as important as what you gain by repenting. It's all part of the Gospel. You cannot have one without the other.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: You seem to be thinking about this all wrong Dan. What we are told is that we have absolutely nothing to do with getting a ticket to go anywhere, and there is noting we can do to avoid getting the ticket forced upon us. The only thing we can do is recognize the ticket stamped with our name on it is written in stone, and we are on a necessitated path to somewhere, decided, yea predetermined by God Himself before the foundations of the world.
We are told that either our sins were atoned for or they were not, either way you cannot escape your destiny foreordained by God and you have nothing to do but sit back and enjoy the ride......and 'believe' of course.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: No doubt that at times truth needs to be presented in different ways to be seen and understood
No one who is regnerated would want to avoid getting "the ticket." Part of "the ticket" is that we are granted the desire to have it. No one is saved who does not want to be.Heavenly Pilgrim said:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Romans 8:29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: If we were chosen before the foundations of the world to salvation or damnation, and that being apart from any desires we could have or could possibly be formed, having not being birthed into this world yet, what could our desires have to do with anything? Do you think for a minute that your desires could thwart the necessitated outcome of necessitated fate, a feat not even God can accomplish?
What you appear to be saying is that if God desires one to be saved, God will necessite the desires of salvation in them. If that is the case, desire is nothing other than necessitated fate, and has nothing at all to do with a choice of the will. You might as well stated that God created a bunch of robots that were programmed of necessity to do exactly what He desires for them to do. You cannot escape the converse of this argument in that God must have desired for the damned to be damned as well and their fate is every bit as necessitated as those of so-called believers, making God Himself the author of all evil. Even John Calvin clearly accepted the total and complete predestination of the damned, or double predestination, as an unaviodable consequent of the notions you appear to be setting forth.
amity said:
If by your above statements you mean that we have NO CHOICE in following Christ, then you would have a very wrong position.
Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
Could the above refer to the Apostle and the Below refer to new belivers? (Just a question).
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
"In Him" we are predestined according to Gods plan
conversely - Outside of Him, we are predestined to go to HELL.
Both locations have been predetermined before our existance. So those of us who Choose to follow Christ will be a part of Gods predestined plan for salvation and those of us who reject it will be a part of Gods other predestined plan for those who reject Him - that is HELL.
1 Timothy 2
1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Would Paul not be contradicting himself by implying that God "WANTS" (or desire) ALL MEN to be saved? If in fact ALL MEN cannot be saved due to not being predestined for heaven.
Would it not make sense that predestination will apply to whatever choice a person make? Only in this can I see God expressing a Desire.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: A very well thought out post with much placed on the table for our consideration. :thumbs:
I was saved when I was 20, when I was about to commit suicide. Therefore Jesus was my physical savior in addition to the fact that He is my spiritual Savior. I had no idea about the terminology about my experience, but that experience changed my whole life and I have become a totally different person since then. I realized that I, who was trying to commit suicide, died already at the Cross, and therefore there was no need for the suicide. The world and I myself which looked completely and so much corrupted became new creations in Jesus since then. I found this when I read Galatians 2:20. Praise the Lord Jesus and what He did at the Cross. Thanks to God who has forgiven my sins and saved me.
I know that God saved me for His glory by showing His mercy and grace to me.
I know that God saved me for His glory by showing His mercy and grace to me.
Prodigal Daughter
New Member
I was not looking to be saved. I was happy living my Pagan/Agnostic lifestyle. God came to me. He knocked on my heart, and I let Him in.
Throughout years of practicing witchcraft, and making fum of Christians, and having complete disregard for Jesus Christ, I was never truly happy. I would cast spells for what I needed. Spells work. Dont know what makes them work, but they do. But that night, I was sitting outside and something just hit me. I realised that everything I was diong was wrong, and that I was miserable. Then, I had an overwhelming feeling. Like my blood was pumping through my veins for the first time. It covered me. I started crying, and confessed everything that I had done, adn begged God to forgive me. I have never been happier.
Accepting the blood of Christ has changed everything in my life. How I act toward people, the things I do, the music I listen to. And I don't do it to impress any one, or to make God happy. I've changed because I truly wanted to. Nothing that I used to do appeals to me whatsoever.
I just cant imagine anyone having an experience like mine, and not wanting to live for Jesus Christ. He called to me when I didnt even think I was lost, and when I let Him take me, He showed me how truly unhappy I was.
Throughout years of practicing witchcraft, and making fum of Christians, and having complete disregard for Jesus Christ, I was never truly happy. I would cast spells for what I needed. Spells work. Dont know what makes them work, but they do. But that night, I was sitting outside and something just hit me. I realised that everything I was diong was wrong, and that I was miserable. Then, I had an overwhelming feeling. Like my blood was pumping through my veins for the first time. It covered me. I started crying, and confessed everything that I had done, adn begged God to forgive me. I have never been happier.
Accepting the blood of Christ has changed everything in my life. How I act toward people, the things I do, the music I listen to. And I don't do it to impress any one, or to make God happy. I've changed because I truly wanted to. Nothing that I used to do appeals to me whatsoever.
I just cant imagine anyone having an experience like mine, and not wanting to live for Jesus Christ. He called to me when I didnt even think I was lost, and when I let Him take me, He showed me how truly unhappy I was.