Featured Why did Christ say he would draw all men to himself.

Another ignoring context.... Does John 12:32 Go Against The Doctrines of Grace?

 

Since when does "The whole world" automatically mean all individuals? If the world series is going on and the announcer says "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment" do you think that literally means every individual? No, of course not.

And where does it say God loves everyone equally? No, the unsaved are under the WRATH of God.

 

Not sure what you are referring to here.

 

You are looking at it wrong. It shows his justice and his holiness. God's love doesn't outweigh his justice/holiness and vice versa.

 

Guido,

What do you mean by all men?
What about all men who have died before the cross?
What about all men who lived and died and never heard the name Jesus?

[QUOTE]By this it is evident that TULIP is faulty, for if all men are drawn to Christ at this time, then the Holy Ghost is moving on all.[/QUOTE]

Nothing is evident by what you have posted so far.

What does this mean?

He passes over them. Your idea that all persons ever born is faulty, so this is not an issue.

Your struggle here is your view is not accurate.

There is only one true and living God....you will deal with Him one day.

 

Who said that it is?

 

The context of John 12:32, supports the interpretation that Jesus is referring to “all men” without distinction (Jew and Gentile), not all men without exception.

In John 12:19, the religious leaders complained the “whole world” was going after Jesus. In John 12:20, we are told Gentiles had come to the feast and were asking to see Jesus.

It is at this point Jesus states that His time had come to glorify the Father by His death on the cross.

The Gentiles becoming part of the kingdom of God is a repeating theme in John’s gospel. In John 1, he explains the children of God are not born of blood(s), nor of the will of man, but of God. The mention of blood(s) refers to being a physical descendant of Abraham and (because of the plural) most likely the keeping of the blood sacrifices of the OT Law.

The inclusion of Gentiles in the Kingdom is repeated in John 10, the parable of the Good Shepherd, when Jesus says He has “other sheep not of this (Jewish) fold that will hear His voice and follow Him.

Again in John 12, we see the Gentiles have come seeking Jesus. That is the context of His statement He will draw all men to Himself. He means all men without distinction between Jew and Gentile, not all men without exception.

Paul picks up on this truth in Roman’s 9 where he states the descendants of Abraham are not (all) the children of God, but rather the children of the promise made up of both Jew and Gentile.

peace to you

 

Where does the Bible speak of his equal unconditional love for all sinners?

 

So explain this;

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

2Co 5:
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The "us" are the apostles and prophets and Christians who preach salvation through Christ to the gentiles, the world.

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

I am not guessing about this because he says so in 2 Cor 6.

2 Co 6:1 We then, [as] workers together [with him], beseech [you] also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
[how is that possible?]
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all [things] approving ourselves as the ministers of God,

One can receive the grace of God in vain if his faith is not accompanied with heart felt repentance. I know that because of these words in the same context.

11 O [ye] Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto [my] children,) be ye also enlarged.
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

We learn that reconciliation is not salvation but it creates an environment wherein salvation is possible by the removal of that which causes enmity between two parties. In this case it is sin and the offended party has moved to make the reconciliation. However, reconciliation is a two way street and the perpetrators must agree to the terms of reconciliation by a willingness to turn from the offensive behavior and accept the righteousness that is provided through and in Christ. The opportunity to reconcile will only last as long as the perpetrator lives on the earth.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

Please let me ask you a few questions.

Do you believe God is able (if He wanted to) to draw, convict, move upon the hearts of every single person with such power they would repent and believe in Jesus for salvation? Does God possess that ability? In other words, is God omnipotent? (All powerful)? I say yes.

Do you believe God knows exactly how much Holy Spirit influence every single person needs in order to draw, convict, move upon the hearts in such a way as to bring them to repent and believe in Jesus for salvation? Is God omniscient? (All knowing)? I say yes.

If you believe God Holy Spirit draws, convicts, moves upon the hearts of every single person with the exact same amount of influence, doesn’t that mean God is intentionally passing over those He already knows will not respond to that level of influence? I say yes, but I don’t believe He uses the same influence on each person.

Once you concede people cannot come to God without Him first intervening in their lives, you have accepted the doctrines of grace, even if you don’t realize it yet.

peace to you

 

What you are proclaiming is contrary to sound doctrine. You claim sin is removed at Christ’s “reconciliation” when He died in the cross for all people.

However, all people, now sinless and reconciled to God are not yet saved until they “agree to the terms of reconciliation and turn from the offensive behavior”.

What you are saying is contrary to 2000 years of church doctrine, imo.

peace to you

 

No it is not the same thing. One means that there will be both Jews and Gentiles among the elect, the other means all Jews and Gentiles are among the elect. Are you a universalist?