Why did God hate Esau?

[whatever]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
Paul is just giving the Jewish nation a hypothetical based on his belief that they would protest their going to hell. He wrote "what if" in the verse that you are alluding to in Rom. 9:22.

I guess this means you don't believe it.

And you are dead wrong on your first assumption. God chooses for a reason: He said:

"For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that
is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word." Isa 66:2 (see John 12:48 for the opposite knowing full well that to "reject" requires cognitive thought). And...

"The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." Ps. 34:8

Where is He going to find someone like that?

You wrote:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Now, you tell me why God created people whom He knew would never believe. Wouldn't He have been more merciful to have not created them at all? Or maybe He didn't really know what they would decide?

God did not want a bunch of Stepford Wives. He gave everyone a free will to either love Him or reject Him. Why did God includ this in His Word:

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers
served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we
will serve the LORD." Josh. 24:15

God makes the ultimate choice on who He will save (Rom. 9:15), on this we agree. But He doesn't choose capriciously for no reason at all as Calvinists assert. He chooses those that choose to believe His Word concerning their own sinful state deserving of hell (a contrite heart), and the biblical Gospel account that glorifies His Son Jesus Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]That didn't even come close to answering the question. How is it merciful for God to create someone whose destiny is eternal damnation when He knows that nothing He or anyone else does will change that, and when He didn't have to create that person at all? How does saying "at least they weren't Stepford Wives" demonstrate God's mercy?

 

[JackRUS]

Where is He going to find someone like that?

Are you saying that you are not sorry for your sins?

Are you also saying that no one ever that was in an unregenerate state was sorry for their sins? (Now get that memory bank going before you answer because I have several examples from Scripture)

Ya I know, total depravity. Don't bet on it whatever.

You asked:

That didn't even come close to answering the question. How is it merciful for God to create someone whose destiny is eternal damnation when He knows that nothing He or anyone else does will change that, and when He didn't have to create that person at all? How does saying "at least they weren't Stepford Wives" demonstrate God's mercy?

Read Romans 1. Everyone has the chance to get saved but they choose not to. God is merciful, but He's also just.

And you shouldn't isolate your theology with Romans 9 and then ask that question. Romans 9 was directed to the whole nation of Israel who thought that they would all be saved just for being Jews. That is the context of the chapter. And that's why you don't get it.

And as I pointed out, we are free moral agents. Would you rather be married to a spouse that was programed to love you, or to one that chose to love you from her/his own free will? Well guess what; God is just like you on that. Why are you surprised to find that out?

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
Where is He going to find someone like that?

Are you saying that you are not sorry for your sins?

Where did I say that? You keep saying that I said things that I just haven't said.

Are you also saying that no one ever that was in an unregenerate state was sorry for their sins? (Now get that memory bank going before you answer because I have several examples from Scripture)

Ya I know, total depravity. Don't bet on it whatever.

I didn't say that either. At least one of us is not being careful enough with his reading.

Judas was sorry enough for his sins that he killed himself. Surely that's not what God is looking for.

Hint: If God doesn't find what He is looking for He will just make it.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
Read Romans 1. Everyone has the chance to get saved but they choose not to. God is merciful, but He's also just.

Uh-oh. You just sounded like me. Everyone chooses not to get saved. Then how does anyone get saved? Something has to change them, I guess.

And you shouldn't isolate your theology with Romans 9 and then ask that question. Romans 9 was directed to the whole nation of Israel who thought that they would all be saved just for being Jews. That is the context of the chapter. And that's why you don't get it.

Romans 9 was directed to Christians in Rome, just like the rest of the book, explaining why the word of God has not failed, because "it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring".

And as I pointed out, we are free moral agents. Would you rather be married to a spouse that was programed to love you, or to one that chose to love you from her/his own free will? Well guess what; God is just like you on that. Why are you surprised to find that out?

God is nothing like me.

God made free moral agents who He knew would choose eternal damnation, and that nothing would prevent that, when He didn't have to make them at all. They aren't wives who freely choose to love Him on their own, and they aren't wives who are programmed to love Him. They hate Him with all their being. Why did He create them at all? Why is that better than not creating them?