Why do I Feel Like...

[skypair]

... Paul or Jesus preaching to the Pharisees here??

Don't we ALL agree that Jesus died for our sins because we believed and received His Sacrifice at the cross on our behalf? and then rose from the dead proving what we also shall do? Isn't 1Cor 15:1-4 enough gospel to be saved? Wasn't Peter's "prescription" in Acts 2:38 "Repent and be baptized ... in the name of Jesus Christ ... and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" enough?

I am amazed that some know so much more that has to be done or understood in order to be eternally saved.

I have the distinct feeling of Paul in Acts 15:4-5 where a sect of Pharisees that rose up adding law to the gospel. Or in Acts 20:29 where Paul warns the Ephesians that "ravenous wolves" would come in and not spare the flock ... 'Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.' Acts 20:30

I can't help but feel like people are coming in here with an extrabiblical agenda, perhaps "wolves" or "men arising in our midst," and subverting the simplicity that is in Christ, 2Cor 11:3-4 -- "3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

I would encourage the saints to stay focused on this gospel and, like TC is already begun, look into eschatology or Christian living or mysteries and parables, etc. together.

I hate to see us going back to the "laying again the foundation for repentance from dead works and of faith toward God." (Heb 6:1) You can't be "renewed to repentance" another way -- either you did or you didn't follow the simple gospel the first time. Don't bear "thorns and thistles" any longer, but "herbs meat for them by whom it is dressed." (6:7-8).

skypair

 

[BrotherJames]

lordship salvationist?

 

[npetreley]

... Paul or Jesus preaching to the Pharisees here??

Delusions of grandeur?

 

[skypair]

lordship salvationist?

Someone, maybe -- not me. We need to move on from the first elements of salvation, wouldn't you agree?

skypair

 

[pinoybaptist]

Don't we ALL agree that Jesus died for our sins because we believed and received His Sacrifice at the cross on our behalf?

I don't. I believe Jesus died for our sins because He first loved us even when we didn't, because He had mercy on us even when we were mocking Him, AND THEN I believed and repented and turned from idols to the living God because of the Holy Spirit's quickening.

You've got your horse in front of the cart, yo.

and then rose from the dead proving what we also shall do?

No. He rose from the dead so the Father can prove He was the promised Messiah, the Son of God.

Romans 1:4 - And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:


He didn't rise from the dead to prove what we should do.

Isn't 1Cor 15:1-4 enough gospel to be saved?

No gospel is ever enough for one to be eternally saved. Read Paul very carefully. He never says the gospel results in eternal salvation. It results in temporal salvation. If believing the gospel results in eternal salvation, then you are daming those who have diseases of the memory or the brain because they will forget what was taught to them.

This gospel Paul is referring to saved the Corinthians from the false gods they used to worship, and the ungodly lifestyles they used to live.

Wasn't Peter's "prescription" in Acts 2:38 "Repent and be baptized ... in the name of Jesus Christ ... and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" enough?

Again, no amount of repentance will result in eternal salvation. Either the eternal salvation of the sinner was procured and secured by the Eternal Triune God, in Christ, ALONE with no input, help, or action of any kind from the sinner or the eternal salvation you believe and preach is Christ PLUS baptism, Christ PLUS repentance, Christ PLUS good works, Christ PLUS obedience, Christ PLUS holiness, Christ PLUS church membership, Christ PLUS this and that.

Repent and be baptized was Peter's exhortation to those whose hearts have already been "pricked" (verse 37). Try preaching "repent" and be baptized to the hardened criminals in the prisons, without the Holy Spirit being there first ahead of you, and see if you come out in one piece.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Paul or Jesus preaching to the Pharisees here??

Because you treat us like we're all Pharisees here, and you alone have the understanding of the Bible, and so speak to us like you were Paul or Jesus, and we know you're neither.

 

[skypair]

[/B]I don't. I believe Jesus died for our sins because He first loved us even when we didn't, because He had mercy on us even when we were mocking Him, AND THEN I believed and repented and turned from idols to the living God because of the Holy Spirit's quickening.

OK, your "day in court." How do you know the Holy Spirit showed up first? You were "totally depraved" at the time, were you not? You were as a blind man yet you saw the Spirit first? Not understood and believed the gospel first but saw the Spirit, right?

Read Paul very carefully. He never says the gospel results in eternal salvation. It results in temporal salvation. If believing the gospel results in eternal salvation, then you are daming those who have diseases of the memory or the brain because they will forget what was taught to them.

This gospel Paul is referring to saved the Corinthians from the false gods they used to worship, and the ungodly lifestyles they used to live.

Actually, you are preaching Rom 5:10 here -- "saved by His death ... much more saved by His life."

Here in 1Cor 15, 1) there's no word of idols, friend, and your suggesting so is bad for you credibility. 2) The chapter is mainly about resurrection that occurs when you are born again -- else "why are you baptized for the dead if the dead rise not?" 3) There is not an assertion of doctrine nor dogma about mental incapacitation. "If you keep in memory" alludes to what Peter spoke of in 2Pet 1:9 -- "forgetting that one is purged of ones old sins." That is, lack of growth, not lack of "brain cells."

Finally, Peter put it in the right order. If this isn't how you were saved, then perhaps ... well.

In Acts 2:38, they obviously had just HEARD (been "drawn," as you say) the gospel preached and the call to believe it ("HEARD ... PRICKED [not "indwelt"] in their hearts). The Holy Ghost comes AFTER the rebirth. Then he said, "Repent and be baptized [because your sins are forgiven] ... in the name of Jesus Christ ... and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" .

And you wonder why you sound like a Pharisee to me -- telling me what to do to be saved in this life while leading me down the "primrose path" to hell in eternity. At what point are you going to let me reconcile with God, sir?? 2Cor 5:20

...you believe and preach is Christ PLUS baptism, Christ PLUS repentance, Christ PLUS good works, Christ PLUS obedience, Christ PLUS holiness, Christ PLUS church membership, Christ PLUS this and that.

Faith plus works like James says? I preach that but NOT for salvation. Repentance is "commitment" and baptism is "testimony" -- else perhaps one has "believed in vain" 1Cor 15:2 -- "grace in vain" 2Cor 6:1 -- believed to no effect. Read Rom 10:9-10 -- "believe with thine heart ... confess with thy mouth." Same thing -- believe with effect -- "and thou shalt be saved."

skypair

 

[pinoybaptist]

OK, your "day in court." How do you know the Holy Spirit showed up first? You were "totally depraved" at the time, were you not? You were as a blind man yet you saw the Spirit first? Not understood and believed the gospel first but saw the Spirit, right?

Skypair, I was not born speaking the beautiful English language, but I do know reading back what I posted that I never said I saw the Holy Spirit.
But, then, again, I cannot fault you for that (can you fault a child for being a child ?).

That's your style.

You put words in people's mouths.

Actually, you are preaching Rom 5:10 here -- "saved by His death ... much more saved by His life."

Here in 1Cor 15, 1) there's no word of idols, friend, and your suggesting so is bad for you credibility. 2) The chapter is mainly about resurrection that occurs when you are born again -- else "why are you baptized for the dead if the dead rise not?" 3) There is not an assertion of doctrine nor dogma about mental incapacitation. "If you keep in memory" alludes to what Peter spoke of in 2Pet 1:9 -- "forgetting that one is purged of ones old sins." That is, lack of growth, not lack of "brain cells."

I was not preaching from 1 Corinthians 15:1. You are the one who mentioned 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and I just pointed you to the context of those four verses, senor.

Your purpose in using those four verses was to show to us poor, misled Pharisees that one must remember the gospel or else be lost. I pointed out the obvious. If human memory is the clinching factor for one's eternal salvation, and not the finished work of Christ, standing alone from any human contribution, then many men in Christian churches were, are, and will be done for, because of diseases like mental dementia.

Now, you are saying that salvation is by purging one's self from old sins, do you mean "eternal" salvation, or temporal. If it is the former, I beg to disagre. If it is the latter, then I somewhat agree.

As for the remainder of your post, I can only say that you are as confusing as you are confused. You start out lamenting our lack of salvation, and by your posts, I gather you mean the eternal aspect of salvation, and when someone points out to you certain contexts and concepts then you turn around and speak as if you were not talking of eternal salvation at all but of timely salvation, that is, salvation from dead works, false gospels, and the like.

And you wonder why you sound like a Pharisee to me -- telling me what to do to be saved in this life while leading me down the "primrose path" to hell in eternity. At what point are you going to let me reconcile with God, sir?? 2Cor 5:20

I am not telling you what to do to be saved in this life, sir. You are big enough to do that and need no one to hold your hand like a baby. Besides, in the words of the Eternal Father, "even if someone came back from the dead, [they] you will not hear them".

Here's what I can tell you, though.

If you sincerely believe in your heart of hearts that I am a devil and a false prophet here on this board put here by Satan for the specific purpose of waylaying your "soul", then you can complain to the Administrator and tell him/her about it and lay down your charges right before him.

The Administrator will know what to do.

Or, if you think we are all of us on this board the same, Pharisees and devils, then you can always leave the board.

Take your pick.

 

[skypair]

Wow, Pinoy,

I thought we were just doing a little Bible study. All of a sudden you make it out that I'm accusing you of all kinds of things.

"Is purged," doesn't mean purged himself or myself but it does mean purged of his "old sins" here.

I also wanted to know how you knew or know you were indwelt by the Spirit before you believed. Why was your salvation experience different from Acts 2:38?

Finally, "can you fault a child for being a child?" No, but obviously you can. Born "totally depraved," aren't they? or at least with "sin guilt" from Adam, eh?

skypair