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Why Do Some Reject While Others Receive Salvation?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by OldRegular, Apr 15, 2005.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    God speaking through the Prophet Isaiah tells us:

    Isaiah 64:6 [1769 KJV] But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    Through the Apostle Paul God tells us:

    Romans 3:23 [1769 KJV] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Ephesians 2:1-3 [NASB]
    1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
    2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
    3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

    In the Parable of the sower we are told by Jesus Christ, Matthew 13:18-23 [1789 KJV]:

    18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
    19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
    20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
    21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
    22. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
    23. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

    Given that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags, that all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, and that we were all dead in trespasses and sins, why is it that some accept the message of the Gospel to their eternal Salvation and some reject it to their eternal Damnation. In the Parable of the Sower we see that three of four who heard the Gospel rejected it. WHY?
     
    #1 OldRegular, Apr 15, 2005
  2. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    OldRegular, why do you insist on taking scripture out of context to support your incorrect understanding of God and Man.
    Because you have taken verse 6 out of its context, it does not retain its meaning as stated by Isaiah!

    You are therefore GUILTY of "scoundralism", the practice of twisting truth to suit your own personal agenda!
     
    #2 Wes Outwest, Apr 15, 2005
  3. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    Read what Paul says

    "So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: "The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, "saying, ‘Go to this people and say: "Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand; And seeing you will see, and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed , Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!"
    (Acts 28:25-28)

    People "close their oen eyes" to the Truth as they do not wish to accept what God has planned for them. Rarther, they have pleasure in their unrighteous deedsm, and reject the Gospel of the Lord Jesus.Read also 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, where Paul shows why God sends "a strong delusion" to some.
     
    #3 icthus, Apr 16, 2005
  4. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris Active Member

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    Its all within Gods righteous judgment on sin, if God did not give Grace non of us would be saved.

    David
     
    #4 David Michael Harris, Apr 16, 2005
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Do some receive more grace than others?
     
    #5 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    People "close their oen eyes" to the Truth as they do not wish to accept what God has planned for them. Rarther, they have pleasure in their unrighteous deedsm, and reject the Gospel of the Lord Jesus.Read also 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, where Paul shows why God sends "a strong delusion" to some. </font>[/QUOTE]Why does God only send a strong delusion to some?
     
    #6 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
  7. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Do some receive more grace than others? </font>[/QUOTE]Those who accept God, and believe in him do indeed receive the fullness of God's grace, while those who do not receive only the effect of God's grace.
     
    #7 Wes Outwest, Apr 16, 2005
  8. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    The correct rendering of the subject is 2 Thess 2:9-12
     
    #8 Wes Outwest, Apr 16, 2005
  9. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    People "close their oen eyes" to the Truth as they do not wish to accept what God has planned for them. Rarther, they have pleasure in their unrighteous deedsm, and reject the Gospel of the Lord Jesus.Read also 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, where Paul shows why God sends "a strong delusion" to some. </font>[/QUOTE]Why does God only send a strong delusion to some? </font>[/QUOTE]Did you not read the passage in 2 Thess?

    It very clearly says why

    "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth , that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion , that they should believe the lie,that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2:10-12)

    Here is your answer
     
    #9 icthus, Apr 16, 2005
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Another Question posed by OldRegular:
    David was talking about grace that leads to salvation. Since some are saved and some are not does God give the ones who are saved a greater measure of grace? If He does, WHY?
     
    #10 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
  11. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    There is no grace that leads to salvation! It is Hearing God's word while He extends HIS Grace, that leads to Salvation!

    There is God's grace. ONE GOD = ONE GOD'S GRACE! All mankind are under God's one and only Grace. God is not "Baskin-Robbins(tm)" serving up a variety of Graces. He is God and has but ONE Grace.

    Man is saved through faith while God's grace is present. Faith is entirely up to the man! God saves those who have it, but does not save those who lack it!
     
    #11 Wes Outwest, Apr 16, 2005
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    A second question posed by Old Regular
    You did not explain the passage from 1 Thessaloniansso I need to ask: Does God only send a strong delusion to them who already are perishing? This appears to be the meaning of the statement "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;"?
     
    #12 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
  13. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    To those who do not have FAITH in God, God will send strong delusion to them so that they will think in their hearts that they are on the right path while they are not.

    Broad is the way to destruction, and many there are who take it! It is those who are on that broad way that are deluded because they lack faith in God. Evenso, they believe that they are thinking rightly about God....that is delusion!
     
    #13 Wes Outwest, Apr 16, 2005
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The passage states: "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth , that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion , that they should believe the lie,that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

    I am trying to understand why some receive the love of truth while others do not.
     
    #14 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
  15. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    Wes, I am not sure that I can agree with you here. Without the grace of God working in a sinners heart BEFORE they are saved, then savlation would not be possible. Nor do I think that the whole world has the same grace extended to them. Me a closet Calvinist? Nah!
     
    #15 icthus, Apr 16, 2005
  16. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    And those who have faith in God, how did they come by that faith ? Was it an inborn thing with them ? Are all men with the kind of faith that pleases God ?

    Were you born with inherent faith in you, Wes ?

    Did God see something good in you so that he then saved you on the basis of that something good in you which will cause you to believe and thus be saved ?

    What I am trying to do is to get a glimpse at the core of your theology, Wes.

    As for me, I am not a Calvinist but I hold to the doctrines of Grace, albeit from a different perspective than that of a Calvinist.
     
    #16 pinoybaptist, Apr 16, 2005
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    If there is no grace that leads to salvation:

    1. Do you believe the following Scripture?

    2. If so would you please explain what God is saying to us?

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
     
    #17 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
  18. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    This would be called 'evasiveness.'

    Allow me to add yet another verse to the ones oldregular mentioned:

    Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    sounds like the cry of someone who cannot activate any part of his own redemption to me!
     
    #18 whetstone, Apr 16, 2005
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Additional question by OldRegular:
    How are we to interpret the following Scripture?

    Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
     
    #19 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Wes

    Your statement: Faith is entirely up to the man! contradicts the Scripture Looking unto Jesus the AUTHOR and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. [Hebrews 12:2]
     
    #20 OldRegular, Apr 16, 2005
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