Why don’t Lutherans

Because they are Lutherans and we are Baptists?

 

I think mostly it is a mixture of works and grace salvation. I know they baptize babies or at least some of them do. Don't know much else about them.

 

Because they are Lutherans.

Why don't Catholics believe the way we do?

or Mormons?

or Buddhists?

or Muslims?

Not everyone, including all of God's people, will have the same level of understanding that He gives to others. When certain understanding is absent, man tries to fill the void by inserting something there. It always turns out wrong when we try to do this.

Here is the real question:

Why don't Baptists believe the way Baptists do?

I have yet to see 2 Baptists, or 2 anything, agree on everything.

Paul said he would gladly give his understanding to others, but he could not. That understanding, or revelation, is something that God gives His children when, where, and how He sees fit.

I often wonder as well why God just doesn't let us all understand everything about the Bible.

I have a feeling that if He let us in on everything while we are yet here in these earthly vessels, the excitement and joy would be so overwhelming as to kill these frail bodies.

Don't wonder, one day we will have perfect knowledge and there won't be a need to distinguish ourselves as Baptist or Lutheran or anything else. We will be perfect mansions, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ.

How lovely.

 

Amen Bro James!!

 

Lutherans and Baptist are both born again, so really the differences are nothing important!

 

Not all Baptists and Lutherans are born again.

Mt. 7:21-23,"Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

 

Living here in Lutheran country I would disagree with this statement. Certainly no one is saved by the denomination they are in, including Baptists.

We have ElCA, WELS, and MSL Lutheran churches all over our area (two in our little town of Lebanon). In talking with them about salvation, I not found one who is trusting by faith alone in Jesus Christ. They are all baptised as babies and trusting that for their salvation. While there certainly may be saved Lutherans out there, those I know do not demonstrate saving faith in Christ.

Lutherans are covenant and amil - I am dispensational and pretrib, premil
Lutherans practice infant baptism by sprinkling - I practice believers baptism by immersion
Lutherans believe in faith plus works - I believe in faith alone
Lutherans have synod form of church government - I am congregational

There are a lot of other differences but these should prove the inaccuracy of the opening statement.

 

I know a few Missouri Synod Lutherans that I believe are genuinely saved. But I would be tempted to say it is in spite of rather than because of their sotierology or theology in general.

 

All LCMS people I know believe one is saved by Faith Alone in Christ alone.

 

Then how is it I wonder, that they claim faith alone?

Living here in Lutheran country I would disagree with this statement. Certainly no one is saved by the denomination they are in, including Baptists.

We have ElCA, WELS, and MSL Lutheran churches all over our area (two in our little town of Lebanon). In talking with them about salvation, I not found one who is trusting by faith alone in Jesus Christ. They are all baptised as babies and trusting that for their salvation. While there certainly may be saved Lutherans out there, those I know do not demonstrate saving faith in Christ.

Lutherans are covenant and amil - I am dispensational and pretrib, premil
Lutherans practice infant baptism by sprinkling - I practice believers baptism by immersion
Lutherans believe in faith plus works - I believe in faith alone
Lutherans have synod form of church government - I am congregational

There are a lot of other differences but these should prove the inaccuracy of the opening statement. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Great line and amen!

 

Well the Augsburg Confession of Faith is the official Confession of the LCMS church, and it states,

that we poor sinners are justified before God and saved alone by faith in Christ, and thus Christ alone is our Righteousness....We believe, teach, and confess also that not works maintain faith and salvation in us, but the Spirit of God alone, through faith, of whose presence and indwelling good works are evidences

The LCMS website http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2656also states,

All our good works are tainted with sin. "All our righteous acts are like filthy rags," as Isaiah reminds us. Therefore, they cannot be counted for our salvation. Only the perfect, all-sufficient righteousness that Jesus accomplished for us with His perfect life, will be enough for our salvation. This comes to us by grace, imputed to us through faith, faith being a gift of God (Eph. 2:8-9).

The Christian is not saved by KNOWING that he has faith. By grace, God has given him faith in Jesus, and it is through that faith he is saved. For example, Abraham believed God (had faith, not just knew he had faith) and it was credited to him as righteousness (Romans 4:3). Yes, the Christian should bother whether he is doing Christ's good works, even though he is saved by faith alone. It is God's will and express command that the Christian should do good works, which the Holy Spirit works in him. Christ's good works are indicators that the Christian has Christ's faith and not something else. Christ's good works will be the products of that faith, and those good works will be the public signs on which Christ will pronounce His public final judgment (Matt. 25).

Faith, big or small, strong or weak, as long as it trusts in Jesus' merits, will SAVE. Saving faith is not contingent upon the amount of works one does, but is a gift of the Holy Spirit through the Gospel. Trust in Jesus above all for forgiveness and life eternal


I am not a apologist for Lutheranism. I disagree with their views on Baptismal regeneration and other things BUT it is incorrect to say that the LCMS teaches faith plus works. Yes, they do teach baptismal regeneration but their teaching on this is differant from the Roman Catholic view. They do not teach it infuses grace but it implants faith and that those baptized must ultimately come to outward faith in Christ alone for Salvation to be considered a Christian. I disagree strongly with them but it is not correct to say they are teaching work salvation. Baptists have a terrible habit of misrepresenting those that differ with us.

 

I think it is important to remember that these our an inhouse debate and that Lutherns and Babtist both agree on the fundamental essentials of our faith.Wich is the authority of scripture,the existance of a triune GOD,and Jesus Christ-Who is fully God and fully man was sent to save us from the bondage of our sin.However I will say that from my experiance Babtist as a whole tend to spend a lot more time in the Word.

 

Circuitrider
Since when is...
"Lutherans are covenant and amil - I am dispensational and pretrib, premil"
"
...that a requirement for demonstrating a saving faith in Christ?

 

I think it all boils down to knowing them by their fruits. The Bible talks about "having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof"
The Lutherans in my area I know of seem to be of little difference than the Catholics and don't mind hitting the pubs frequently. I am not judging them but simply expressing my opinion that I do not believe it is a good wittness since these places are almost always associated with overtly sinful activities. Although I know of some very good Lutheran people the religeon seems to be intertwined with a philosophy of permissivness to some degree. Most episcopal churches I know of are completely bereft of any kind of spiritual influence and honestly I even wonder why they bother at all because I see nothing positive in a spiritual sense coming out of the lives of the patrons of those churches. The Lutherans, of course aren't as bad, but I do get a sennse of the pomp and circumstance solely for the sake of itself when I have had anything to do with that religeon in the past. For myself anyway, too much formality and ritual that seems to be there not so much for the benefit of the Lord as much for the people attending. Of course I guess you could say that about many different denominations.